Weds 1st April: G20 protests - discussion, reaction and chat

[cesare]

I've sent those in too. I won't get too excited.

I feel a bit 'disgusted, tunbridge wells', I don't normally bother emailing the media. Might as well try though.

 

[_pH_]

You could email in the links to the video and photographs to go with it?

someone already did, even if they seem to have a very warped view of what they're watching:

abic33

02 Apr 09, 5:05pm (57 minutes ago)

This youtube link shows the protesters surging at the police lines while shouting this is not a riot.


You notice the police did not deploy the riot police until the protesters had attacked and the police without riot shields could no longer cope. This whole we are peaceful act is a dream you remember what you want to remember and conveniently forget charging the police lines causing the police containment response.

wtf?

e2a: it's from the comments on that guardian article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2009/apr/02/g20-protest-climate-camp

 

[_pH_]

BBC going on about 'the expense of removing grafitti'. the vast majority of it is in chalk ffs. the rain would wash it off in time

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Article here by John O'Connor

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2009/apr/02/police-g20-protest-kettling

Life for senior officers has been made much easier by the use of counter-terrorism powers, which enable them to contain demonstrators for hours in a confined spot. This tactic, known as "kettling", is seen by some as an attempt to prevent people lawfully demonstrating. There is no doubt that it works and the Law Lords have underwritten its legality. The police would claim that using these tactics in a non-selective way does cause inconvenience to persons who are legally trying to make their point, but it is effective in controlling the troublemakers. The alternative is for police to use snatch squads to take out the troublemakers. Confrontation between police and snatch squads does lead to violence and injuries on both sides, so one can see why kettling is such a popular option.

so this current technique, called "kettling", is actual part of anti-terrorist legislation?

can somebody explain this in more detail

 

[Divisive Cotton]

BBC going on about 'the expense of removing grafitti'. the vast majority of it is in chalk ffs. the rain would wash it off in time

as opposed the expense of taxpayers being out the City... I wonder how billions that cost...

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Few more pics from Rampart and Bank of England today. Few people staging a sit-down at the latter, cops escorted whole bunch of people away seemingly peacefully, lots of other people wandering about and looking a bit lost to know what to do.

 

[_pH_]

from the article DC links to:

the cameras showed that the police acted for the most part with remarkable restraint.

yeah, but whose cameras?

 

[Divisive Cotton]

You could email in the links to the video and photographs to go with it?

i have

 

[lopsidedbunny]

Few more pics from Rampart and Bank of England today. Few people staging a sit-down at the latter, cops escorted whole bunch of people away seemingly peacefully, lots of other people wandering about and looking a bit lost to know what to do.

Armed Police vehicles... Hmm... really necessary?

 

[_pH_]

Armed Police vehicles... Hmm... really necessary?

Are they armed? Saw 5 of those yesterday, but didn't see any arms?

 

[xes]

Are they armed? Saw 5 of those yesterday, but didn't see any arms?

that's because they kept them inside the carriage at all times....

 

[cesare]

i have

Yep, just saw that

 

[_pH_]

that's because they kept them inside the carriage at all times....

well yes, fair point. didn't realise they were armed, just assumed they highly protected like the police land rovers in NI

 

[cesare]

Armed Police vehicles... Hmm... really necessary?

Probably armoured rather than armed? Maybe?

 

[_pH_]

Probably armoured rather than armed? Maybe?

I thought that, but then as xes says, we don't know what's inside the vehicles

 

[cesare]

I thought that, but then as xes says, we don't know what's inside the vehicles

True. Bit OTT though. Trays and trays of doughnuts interspersed with whatever weaponry that could be diverted from the Excel Centre

 

[lostexpectation]

video from 8:21 at bishopgates

 

[lopsidedbunny]

that's because they kept them inside the carriage at all times....

Agree, normally used in sieges and terrorist operations... Surprise that they would uses these in a such an operation... didn't know that they had Five but I did see them on utube so I wasn't surprise. I wonder how many more they got after all leaving those poor/rich 20 people to fend for themselves...

 

[bluestreak]

This is not film of sit-down protests getting stamped on/kicked/battered, which I believe happened much later in the dark. I haven't seen any pix of that but I have seen enough first person/eye-witness reports of it to make it highly believable.

But we're splitting hairs here - the cops had a plan, our people walked into it and the cops carried it out. Simple as that. Except for the detail of whose actual head got whacked, none of this happened by chance. This was planned, rehearsed, trained for by the police. I mean come on, how many times are we going to blindly wander into these situations and get clobbered, over and over again. Why is anyone surprised at the police behaviour?

From our side this was almost a re-run of Stop The City in 1984, which was a tremendous success and which the cops learned from. We didn't and in 1985 when we tried it again the cops crushed us. Then after a sensible gap, J18 (1999) turned the tables on the police again, another one for us. But they figured out how to stop that happening and we just keep trying to do the same things over again and losing. They analyse what happened and respond, we just sit around reminiscing and try to act it out again. When are we going to learn?

good post, well said.

 

[bluestreak]

This sort of protest activity is just providiing ammunition to those who wish to make our society even more authoritarian.

Whereas sitting back doing nothing, or writing to your MP has a long tradition of success.

You'd have told the Suffragettes to go home.

 

[bluestreak]

I just want to exercise my right to freedom of assembly.

You don't have a freedom of assembly.

 

[the button]

Button said there was more than one ring of police when he walked from L/St towards Bank last night. He had to cut down one of the little lanes to get towards London Bridge, I guess this would have been 5.45ish. He'll probably be able to describe it better later. Sounds pretty much what hipipol is describing.

Edit: He didn't get to London Bridge until 6.45, took him ages

Yeah, left work at about 5.40, knew that Bank station was closed so thought I'd chance my arm on a 21 bus from Moorgate. It soon became clear that the buses weren't running, so I wandered up Moorgate, my plan being to get to London Bridge and get the 47. As you might expect, you couldn't get down the side of the Bank of England, or towards Exchange Square, so I turned right.

My sense is that there were at least three identifiable police cordons. The ones nearest Bank were in full riot gear (one goon banging his shield as he faced off the commuters ), then a layer in normal uniform plus hi-vis vests, then a layer in normal uniform. Set out like a target with the riot cops nearest the bullseye.

I managed to get onto Poultry, then turned right again. The first two turn-offs were blocked with OB. Basically, the first turn-off allowed was Bow Lane (very narrow, very crowded and not particularly safe, if you were interested in public safety, rather than just asserting your ownership of the streets ). Anyway, came out near Mansion House and pottered down past Blackfriars, crossed London Bridge and caught the bus to Lewisham.

The extent of my adventures.

 

[durruti02]

hey he was clearly smoking illegally in a public area .. was for his own health

 

[Kanda]

hey he was clearly smoking illegally in a public area .. was for his own health

How on earth can you comment on a still photo, you have no idea what happened before or after??

 

[cesare]

Yeah, left work at about 5.40, knew that Bank station was closed so thought I'd chance my arm on a 21 bus from Moorgate. It soon became clear that the buses weren't running, so I wandered up Moorgate, my plan being to get to London Bridge and get the 47. As you might expect, you couldn't get down the side of the Bank of England, or towards Exchange Square, so I turned right.

My sense is that there were at least three identifiable police cordons. The ones nearest Bank were in full riot gear (one goon banging his shield as he faced off the commuters ), then a layer in normal uniform plus hi-vis vests, then a layer in normal uniform. Set out like a target with the riot cops nearest the bullseye.

I managed to get onto Poultry, then turned right again. The first two turn-offs were blocked with OB. Basically, the first turn-off allowed was Bow Lane (very narrow, very crowded and not particularly safe, if you were interested in public safety, rather than just asserting your ownership of the streets ). Anyway, came out near Mansion House and pottered down past Blackfriars, crossed London Bridge and caught the bus to Lewisham.

The extent of my adventures.

It sounds as though he got caught between the riot police line and the hi-vis police line - possibly right in that place where people were heading directly towards London Bridge. Looking at google maps, and your description, I can imagine how it happened.

Glad you had to circle west so missed that part, but poor bloke

 

[laptop]

Do you think they took some notice of us

It's quite possible. Combine the implied threat of an eloquent, reasoned complaint to the BBC Trust with the editor's realisation "oh shit, there are going to be legal proceedings over this!" and it's quite likely.



* Waits for the Home Office to invoke the Terrorism Act 2009 to hold this inquest in secret *

 

[stupid kid]

Article here by John O'Connor

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2009/apr/02/police-g20-protest-kettling



so this current technique, called "kettling", is actual part of anti-terrorist legislation?

can somebody explain this in more detail

On Maday 2001, the police used a section 60 order

http://www.urban75.org/mayday01/s60.html

I think they're using another piece of legislation now though.

 

[Darios]

I disagree with most of you fundamentally on a political and philosophical level. However I think at least some of you have your heart in the right place and are sincere.

You've got my sympathies when it comes to the treatment from plod, especially after seeing some of that footage.

It doesn't matter what your political perspective is, or what you're protesting about, if you take to the streets now it seems to be guaranteed smacks to the head, with little to no consequences to the plod.

In those situations, there's no reasoning with them, no shades of grey, just "us and them". Activists on the street now seem to occupy that "lower-other" social place.

And none of it is helped by such a compliant mainstream media, so willing to arrange and edit around the narrative they already have in mind.

That footage from the bishopsgate climate camp is shocking.

 

[xes]

John Hilary, barred from attending G20

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/apr/02/g20-international-aid-and-development

This blog was supposed to come to you from the inside of today's G20 summit. I was accredited to go into the Excel centre in London and write on events as they materialised, both as a Comment is free contributor and as a member of the Put People First coalition of over 150 civil society groups which has come together in preparation for the summit.

When I arrived at the security clearance tent on the dockside this morning, however, I was informed that the government had blocked both my accreditations. At first the explanation was that I had originally been accredited in error due to a computer glitch.

This had a "dog ate my homework" ring to it, so I pointed out that we had confirmed previously with officialdom that I was on the Put People First list. After a bit of pressing and a couple more phone calls, the government official in question admitted that my accreditations had indeed both been withdrawn and that I would not be allowed in.

The news was not entirely unexpected. Last night, my counterpart at the World Development Movement, Benedict Southworth, was informed that his accreditation had been withdrawn at the last minute – on the direct orders of No 10.

Both War on Want and the World Development Movement are known for being at the more critical end of civil society when it comes to the government's policy on international affairs. Other representatives from the Put People First coalition were allowed into the summit venue. Should we be smelling a rat here?

 

[durruti02]

very quickly, since I too should be asleep right now,
1) the non-violence works, for example, the Bi'lin protests in Palestine-Israel held jointly by Israeli-Palestinian Jews and Arabs. search the Middle East forum on my posts there on the non-violence movement.
2) Best reason to do it - only the authorities are the ones meting out the violence. Agent provocateurs and random violence starters can be rooted out easier this way. We live in Britain, not Israel-Palestine. We need to build public support, at this early stage, all is not lost, but it could be lost in future if violent acts against persons or property continue Non-violent demos will encourage others who might not join in to join in. If people think they're going to get hurt, either by acts of other protestors or by police, they won't join us and we lose.
3) Don't confuse non-violence with a civil disobedience, e.g. squatting, sit-downs, repeated marches/demos to keep issue in news. Throwing missiles which might injure someone on the demo or even the police is potentially violent.
4) Fighting-fund - money is needed to fight ineveitable court cases - see Anarchists against the Wall website for news of how long a fight needs to be kept running. It took 2 years to get the Bi'lin demo - held every week by - before Channel 4 news did a long piece on the issues.

By non-violence, I mean no throwing any missiles, smoke bombs. No point really in destroying property - private or public, but fine to dismantle illegal walls/fences (see Bi'ilin protests - where farmers cut off from their lands and denied access via checkpoints despite court orders saying farmers must be allowed access)
By civil disobedience I mean disregarding demands by authorities and demonstrating regardless, keeping spirits high, and getting articulate messages across via all media at disposal.

i tend to agree with this .. but i understand why others wish to smash up the banks who are destroying so many lives .. what was so good about the tutti bianci / wombles was the idea of strength without violence ( though of course in genoa they were met with extreme violence by the state )

your arguement is a good one but how you will get that across to the young and angry is the issue