Weds 1st April: G20 protests - discussion, reaction and chat

[cesare]

It's quite possible. Combine the implied threat of an eloquent, reasoned complaint to the BBC Trust with the editor's realisation "oh shit, there are going to be legal proceedings over this!" and it's quite likely.



* Waits for the Home Office to invoke the Terrorism Act 2009 to hold this inquest in secret *

Lostexpectation's just posted a youtube link to the BBC Live reporting last night. Last night I posted a 'wtf' reaction to what I was watching - riot police lined up behind behind Robert Hall ... where did they spring from and why? And then in the News at Ten, nothing/emphasis on RBS incident. And all of this was carrying on in the meantime.

Earlier I emailed the BBC with (a) a complimentary observation about their on-site reporting during the day; but also (b) with disappointment together with the links and suggestion that they might want to investigate and report further re the events at Bishopsgate that evening/night.

I don't suppose the Have Your Say team will allow it to pass their vetting. But in any event, it seems like the Guardian is ahead of the game. BBC, behind the Guardian? Blimey.

 

[_pH_]

I disagree with most of you fundamentally on a political and philosophical level. However I think at least some of you have your heart in the right place and are sincere.

You've got my sympathies when it comes to the treatment from plod, especially after seeing some of that footage.

It doesn't matter what your political perspective is, or what you're protesting about, if you take to the streets now it seems to be guaranteed smacks to the head, with little to no consequences to the plod.

In those situations, there's no reasoning with them, no shades of grey, just "us and them". Activists on the street now seem to occupy that "lower-other" social place.

And none of it is helped by such a compliant mainstream media, so willing to arrange and edit around the narrative they already have in mind.

That footage from the bishopsgate climate camp is shocking.

good post Darios. Thanks

 

[Divisive Cotton]

This blog was supposed to come to you from the inside of today's G20 summit. I was accredited to go into the Excel centre in London and write on events as they materialised, both as a Comment is free contributor and as a member of the Put People First coalition of over 150 civil society groups which has come together in preparation for the summit...

Both War on Want and the World Development Movement are known for being at the more critical end of civil society when it comes to the government's policy on international affairs. Other representatives from the Put People First coalition were allowed into the summit venue. Should we be smelling a rat here?

He damns himself a bit in that last comment though...

 

[_pH_]

John Hilary, barred from attending G20

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/apr/02/g20-international-aid-and-development

In the same vein, this (by email) from WDM today:

Today I was going to bring you news and updates from the G20 conference taking place in London. As the leaders of the rich countries of the world meet, I was hoping to provide commentary and promote WDM's message of justice for the world's poor. WDM believes that any solution to the global financial crisis needs to put people first.

However Downing Street have other ideas. Yesterday WDM's accreditation was withdrawn at the last minute. The reason is unclear but a member of the accreditation team told us that the decision came after the Foreign and Commonwealth Office had received a note from 'Number 10' to decline my accreditation.

I am outraged that we have apparently been banned at last minute from attending the G20 summit. I hope it's not what it appears to be - an attempt to stage manage events and prevent voices of dissent and disagreement from being heard.

Benedict Southworth

 

[xes]

In the same vein, this (by email) from WDM today:

that's fucked up man. They're just gonna ban anyone with a different voice to theirs from reporting on it. Mother fucking bastards.

 

[N_igma]

go have your fantasy elsewhere

Fantasy world my bollocks. I was being a realist, 10,000 people converging into one place? Not a wonder they were penned in, complete lack of organisation. 4 horse men of the apocalypse? Idiots!

 

[Kanda]

Fantasy world my bollocks. I was being a realist, 10,000 people converging into one place? Not a wonder they were penned in, complete lack of organisation. 4 horse men of the apocalypse? Idiots!

There weren't 10k there??? No way!

 

[cesare]

Fantasy world my bollocks. I was being a realist, 10,000 people converging into one place? Not a wonder they were penned in, complete lack of organisation. 4 horse men of the apocalypse? Idiots!

Are you seriously suggesting that protestors should use NI as a blueprint for effectiveness?

 

[nick h.]

I'm at Bank - nothing going on here. Any protests elsewhere this evg? Doing this on my phone so it' s tricky to read lots of threads.

 

[durruti02]

There's a clip on Indymedia which shows the police wading into the fluffies whilst they hold their hands up and chant "this is not a riot" https://london.indymedia.org.uk/videos/993. Makes for pretty sad viewing. If that was the sort of coverage this event got in the media I think the headlines would be very different, but that will never happen.

i'm not sure i have seen police violence that that fro some time against peaceful protesters .. that video needs to be got out as much as possible .. what happenned after though? they withdrew??

 

[cesare]

i'm not sure i have seen police violence that that fro some time against peaceful protesters .. that video needs to be got out as much as possible .. what happenned after though? they withdrew??

From reading various accounts, I understand that the climate camp were forcibly dispersed by the riot police in the early hours after several hours of being kettled. There's loads of links on this thread alone.

 

[the button]

I am outraged that we have apparently been banned at last minute from attending the G20 summit. I hope it's not what it appears to be - an attempt to stage manage events and prevent voices of dissent and disagreement from being heard.

Benedict Southworth

Oh noes! The liberals have lost their place at the top table.

 

[N_igma]

Are you seriously suggesting that protestors should use NI as a blueprint for effectiveness?

Yes.

Sitting on your hole will do fuck all, the very fact that there was so many separate groups fighting for so very different reasons' shows that there was a complete lack of organistation, I've seen it before and I'll see it again. Complete amateurs, and idiot amateurs at that!

 

[cesare]

Yes.

Sitting on your hole will do fuck all, the very fact that there was so many separate groups fighting for so very different reasons' shows that there was a complete lack of organistation, I've seen it before and I'll see it again. Complete amateurs, and idiot amateurs at that!

Remind me, 1916 (for example, as a useful date) until when, to establish some kind of meaningful peace process? Our countrymen were blowing up/being blown up before you were even born. All this big 'I am' advice on how to conduct demonstrations in London sounds like it's coming from a 23 year old that's never left NI. Christ.

 

[cesare]

Yes.

Sitting on your hole will do fuck all, the very fact that there was so many separate groups fighting for so very different reasons' shows that there was a complete lack of organistation, I've seen it before and I'll see it again. Complete amateurs, and idiot amateurs at that!

This was not about how to conduct a riot. There's insufficient public support for that. Things haven't got that bad yet. If things get that bad, fine, do that stuff then. But here and now, please. It was a demo, just that.

 

[N_igma]

Remind me, 1916 (for example, as a useful date) until when, to establish some kind of meaningful peace process? Our countrymen were blowing up/being blown up before you were even born. All this big 'I am' advice on how to conduct demonstrations in London sounds like it's coming from a 23 year old that's never left NI. Christ.

1916? Bless, try 1534 for some meaningful sort of resistnance.

Well I might not be travelled but it's neither here nor there and I very much doubt that you were around for the blitz. I've been involved in a fair few riots in my time, I'm just saying that thousands of people converging in one spot (whether they have violent or non-violent intentions aside) is fucking idiotic, omplete lack of organisation meant that people were penned in by the police. Can't come running here yapping when it's your own fault.

 

[shaman75]

Biked in for a look around at about 6.45pm.

Nothing happening there. A few protesters sitting quietly and a small police presence on the steps, with some more round the corner by RBS.

Small shrine going and plenty of signs that something happened around the place.

 

[_float_]

Sitting on your hole will do fuck all, the very fact that there was so many separate groups fighting for so very different reasons' shows that there was a complete lack of organistation, I've seen it before and I'll see it again. Complete amateurs, and idiot amateurs at that!

All your talk about "building barricards" etc. - just doesn't correspond with reality. This was the centre of London not some housing estate. The vast majority of people were there to protest peacefully in any case. The reason for a lack of organised and extreme violence (on the protestors side) is because people are not interested in it, not lack of organisation.

 

[cesare]

1916? Bless, try 1534 for some meaningful sort of resistnance.

Well I might not be travelled but it's neither here nor there and I very much doubt that you were around for the blitz. I've been involved in a fair few riots in my time, I'm just saying that thousands of people converging in one spot (whether they have violent or non-violent intentions aside) is fucking idiotic, omplete lack of organisation meant that people were penned in by the police. Can't come running here yapping when it's your own fault.

An arbitrary date plucked from the ether for the sake of example. The tactics that have kept Ireland segregated and in a state of rage, ain't a good basis for using as advice for the people of London, you knob

 

[cesare]

All your talk about "building barricards" etc. - just doesn't correspond with reality. This was the centre of London not some housing estate. The vast majority of people were there to protest peacefully in any case. The reason for a lack of organised and extreme violence (on the protestors side) is because people are not interested in it, not lack of organisation.

There was no 'extreme violence' lol, a few windows smashed at RBS. Even PBP didn't rack that part up before he got pissed and started trolling later on

 

[N_igma]

All your talk about "building barricards" etc. - just doesn't correspond with reality. This was the centre of London not some housing estate. The vast majority of people were there to protest peacefully in any case. The reason for a lack of organised and extreme violence (on the protestors side) is because people are not interested in it, not lack of organisation.

All you had to do was hijack a few police vehicles, burn them out and go from there. Not the hardest task in the world.

An arbitrary date plucked from the ether for the sake of example. The tactics that have kept Ireland segregated and in a state of rage, ain't a good basis for using as advice for the people of London, you knob

I suppose you're right, Londoners are fruits. Keep drumming away on your bongos, revolution will happen any second now!

 

[_pH_]

All you had to do was hijack a few police vehicles, burn them out and go from there. Not the hardest task in the world.

Go from there to where?

 

[_float_]

...thousands of people converging in one spot ... is fucking idiotic...

It is how people protest all round the world. If you could all protest separately then noone would bother leaving home - everyone could have their own separate protest in their own front rooms.

There might be a good argument for alternative approaches (eg staying mobile, not announcing the final destination in advance, splitting the locations), but your suggestions about building barricades are unhelpful fantasy in the context of these protests in this place. If you don't understand why then you don't understand enough about either this movement or this place to lecture people about it.

 

[N_igma]

Go from there to where?

A full on riot.

It is how people protest all round the world. If you could all protest separately then noone would bother leaving home - everyone could have their own separate protest in their own front rooms.

Stupid argument, the Iraq War march in 2003 wet off without incident because there was a general peaceful thrust behind the protest. There was warnings days before this particular event that violence would occur.

There might be a good argument for alternative approaches (eg staying mobile, not announcing the final destination in advance, splitting the locations), but your suggestions about building barricades are unhelpful fantasy in the context of these protests in this place. If you don't understand why then you don't understand enough about either this movement or this place to lecture people about it.

It's not fantasist, violence was expected, you need to prepare for a violent encounter. Thousands of protestors and police converging in one spot, idiotic!

 

[DRINK?]

Biked in for a look around at about 6.45pm.

Nothing happening there. A few protesters sitting quietly and a small police presence on the steps, with some more round the corner by RBS.

Small shrine going and plenty of signs that something happened around the place.

Best pics I've seen objective, reinforce the point....like the work

 

[cesare]

All you had to do was hijack a few police vehicles, burn them out and go from there. Not the hardest task in the world.

I suppose you're right, Londoners are fruits. Keep drumming away on your bongos, revolution will happen any second now!

This bludgeon stuff doesn't really ring any bells with the reality of people living and working here. It doesn't work that great with NI, so why would it work here? Are you really this naive, or are you just trolling?

 

[_pH_]

A full on riot.

and then?

 

[cesare]

A very young person from NI thinks that NI tactics would work in London - when London keeps NI in its place by virtue of NI tactics in the first place. lol.

 

[_float_]

...There was warnings days before this particular event that violence would occur...

The police making up a load of shite you mean?

The violence on the day was 90% about the police using violence to herd people around, intimidate and wear them down and then drive them off the streets. 9% was people pushing back and getting battered even more. 1% was a handful of people smashing a window.

Where the fuck you get these ideas about building barricades, burning police vans and starting riots I don't know. Sounds like you would be a good candidate for the Met police, because they were the primary driver behind the violence and the people who talked it up and initiated it on the day.

You are so detacted from reality and seemingly ignorant of what people were trying to achieve by protesting yesterday that I doubt it is even worthwhile debating it with you - I'll just chalk it up to you projecting some wierd NI or weekend-warrior based fantasies onto London. It doesn't sound like you actually give a shit about what is going on here - you just want to talk about NI stuff and point out hard hard you all are over there.

 

[cesare]

N-igma - Yo dawg. Facepalm.