Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

War propaganda, 'Realists' and neocons, and the denigration of the war sceptics

Still not anything that could be descibed as deescalation.

The strategy appears to be to prepare the way for a Ukrainian counter-offensive. Understandable from the Ukrainian standpoint, but many more on both sides are bound to die if and when it happens.

Unlike some, I regret the death of civilians and soldiers on both sides.
So your version of deescalation is to let Russia keep what they took by force and leave the door open for more killing once people have lost interest in a few years time. Here's a spoiler, Russia aren't going to stop, no matter what you think the west should or shouldn't be doing to support Ukraine.
 
So your version of deescalation is to let Russia keep what they took by force and leave the door open for more killing once people have lost interest in a few years time. Here's a spoiler, Russia aren't going to stop, no matter what you think the west should or shouldn't be doing to support Ukraine.
It's always amusing, if slightly irritating, when people try to tell those who disagree with them what they are really thinking.

There are no 'versions' of deescalation.
 
It's always amusing, if slightly irritating, when people try to tell those who disagree with them what they are really thinking.

Would you like the Russian Government to withdraw its armies from Ukraine? Or do you think their invasion and occupation was/is justified?
 
Would you like the Russian Government to withdraw its armies from Ukraine? Or do you think their invasion and occupation was/is justified?
You can always read what I've written across multiple threads if you want to know what I think.

Not that it's worth anything. Nothing we say on forums like this can possibly affect the outcome.
 
Well the HIMARS arrived, and suddenly the number of artillery attacks from Russia slowed down and deaths of Ukrainians dropped accordingly. Deescalation at its finest.
Yeh we moved from cancer to leo and amazingly the number of Russian artillery attacks and deaths of ukrainians greatly diminished. Deescalation at its finest.
 
Deescalation at its finest.

Mykolaiv attack one of the ‘most brutal’ on region in war so far​

Russia appears to be stepping up its offensive on regions in Ukraine’s south.

The mayor of the southern city of Mykolaiv said two people were killed and three wounded after rockets pounded two residential districts on Sunday night.

Oleksandr Senkevych said the strikes were “probably the most powerful of the entire time [of the war]”.

Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, also addressed the attack in his latest national address:

Today, one of the most brutal shellings of Mykolaiv and the region over the entire period of the full-scale war took place. Dozens of missiles and rockets... The occupiers hit residential buildings, schools, other social infrastructure, and industrial facilities.”
 
Deescalation at its finest.

Mykolaiv attack one of the ‘most brutal’ on region in war so far​

Russia appears to be stepping up its offensive on regions in Ukraine’s south.

The mayor of the southern city of Mykolaiv said two people were killed and three wounded after rockets pounded two residential districts on Sunday night.

Oleksandr Senkevych said the strikes were “probably the most powerful of the entire time [of the war]”.

Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, also addressed the attack in his latest national address:
Not a lot of deescalation going on in the Mykolaiv/Kherson region at the moment, with the Ukrainian counteroffensive... imminent? Beginning? Ongoing?

Fuck knows what's going on around Kherson at the moment. Neither Ukrainian or Russian states are being particularly forthcoming with information on the area. There's plenty of snippets in the news - bridges destroyed, ammo dumps blown up, 'scores' of Russians killed, some tanks destroyed, Russian reinforcements rushing to the area, claims Kherson will be liberated by September. But what is actually happening is notably vague.

It seems Russians are building up to a 'referendum' on Kherson joining Russia while Ukrainians would like to recapture the city before that happens.

Whatever is going on, deescalation is not the word for it.
 
You can always read what I've written across multiple threads if you want to know what I think.

Not that it's worth anything. Nothing we say on forums like this can possibly affect the outcome.
Surely you're capable of offering a succinct answer to a straightforward question?

You see, if I was asked, "Would you like the Russian Government to withdraw its armies from Ukraine? Or do you think their invasion and occupation was/is justified?"

My answer would be: "yes, they should withdraw and no, their invasion and occupation was not justified."

See. Easy. So how about you do the same now?
 
Surely you're capable of offering a succinct answer to a straightforward question?

You see, if I was asked, "Would you like the Russian Government to withdraw its armies from Ukraine? Or do you think their invasion and occupation was/is justified?"

My answer would be: "yes, they should withdraw and no, their invasion and occupation was not justified."

See. Easy. So how about you do the same now?
No, what I'm supposed to say is, yes, I think the invasion was justified and the Russians should stay there until they've conquered the whole of Ukraine. Then they should move westwards and occupy some more countries (this is clearly not possible when they can't even conquer eastern Ukraine, but you get nowhere without ambition.) This is what I want as what the world obviously needs is a lot more Putinism.

I hope this helps some of you. I've always favoured giving the people what they want.
 
No, what I'm supposed to say is, yes, I think the invasion was justified and the Russians should stay there until they've conquered the whole of Ukraine. Then they should move westwards and occupy some more countries (this is clearly not possible when they can't even conquer eastern Ukraine, but you get nowhere without ambition.) This is what I want as what the world obviously needs is a lot more Putinism.

I hope this helps some of you. I've always favoured giving the people what they want.
Stop prevaricating and answer the fucking question. I'm not interested in your incorrect assumptions about what you think I wanted to hear.
 
Great. So now you'll answer the question?
I can only repeat what I say somewhere above, which is that if, for some strange reason, some people have developed a consuming interest in what I think on this matter, then it's all there on dozens of posts across a range of threads.

I do understand their anxiety, however. The whole course of the war might well hang on this question.
 
Surely you're capable of offering a succinct answer to a straightforward question?

You see, if I was asked, "Would you like the Russian Government to withdraw its armies from Ukraine? Or do you think their invasion and occupation was/is justified?"

My answer would be: "yes, they should withdraw and no, their invasion and occupation was not justified."

See. Easy. So how about you do the same now?
i think that matters have gone too far for such a simple if not simplistic solution to work. i don't know, for example, what safeguards the ukrainian authorities might offer to protect the populations who have been living under effective russian rule since 2014 or since earlier this year from reprisals or collective punishments or arbitrary punishments: it's certainly on the cards that quite a few ukrainians might feel somewhat vengeful towards anyone they thought had collaborated with the russians. and even people who'd minded their own business and had no dealings with the authorities but lived under the occupation governments for 8 years might be suspected of collaboration.
 
I can only repeat what I say somewhere above, which is that if, for some strange reason, some people have developed a consuming interest in what I think on this matter, then it's all there on dozens of posts across a range of threads.

I do understand their anxiety, however. The whole course of the war might well hang on this question.
I'd just like you to give a straight answer to a perfectly reasonable question, but instead you're choosing to bluff and squirm around like a lying, two faced, gutless politician.
 
I'd just like you to give a straight answer to a perfectly reasonable question, but instead you're choosing to bluff and squirm around like a lying, two faced, gutless politician
I'm not a politician, but I've long suspected that I am a gutless, two-faced liar.
 
"deescalation" is making ukruine weaker so Russia wins and there is "peace". Making ukaine stronger so Russia loses and gives up is warmongering escalation.
Have I got this right?
 
It's always amusing, if slightly irritating, when people try to tell those who disagree with them what they are really thinking.

There are no 'versions' of deescalation.

It never occurred to me that you might actually be thinking.
 
The former UK Labour leader has urged western countries to stop arming Ukraine in a TV interview likely to underscore Keir Starmer’s determination not to readmit him to the Labour party.

“Pouring arms in isn’t going to bring about a solution, it’s only going to prolong and exaggerate this war,” Jeremy Corbyn said. “We might be in for years and years of a war in Ukraine.”

Corbyn gave the interview on Al Mayadeen, a Beirut-based TV channel that has carried pro-Russia reporting since Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

He said:

What I find disappointing is that hardly any of the world’s leaders use the word peace; they always use the language of more war, and more bellicose war.
This war is disastrous for the people of Ukraine, for the people of Russia, and for the safety and security of the whole world, and therefore there has to be much more effort put into peace.
He called for the UN to be “much more centre stage”, and suggested involving other international bodies such as the African Union or the League of Arab States if the UN were unable to help negotiate a ceasefire.
 
Sabina Higgins, the wife of Irish president Michael D Higgins, has condemned Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine and said she was “dismayed” at criticism she has received in recent days.

Government senators and commentators have criticised Higgins for writing a letter that called for a ceasefire between Russia and Ukraine, which critics said amounted to Kremlin propaganda because it appeared to equate Moscow’s aggression with Kyiv’s fight for survival.

Sabina Higgins made the call in a letter to the Irish Times that was published last week – and also posted on the president’s official website.

In a statement released on Tuesday evening, Higgins said she was “dismayed” at the criticism.

She said:

I have from its outset strongly condemned the illegal Russian invasion of Ukraine and I cannot be but dismayed that people would find anything unacceptable in a plea for peace and negotiations when the future of humanity is threatened by war, global warming and famine.
The statement follows fter an outcry from Ukrainians – including a member of Ukraine’s parliament – the letter disappeared from the website but the president has resisted a clamour to publicly disown the letter or clarify his views on it.

A spokesperson for the president on Monday said he had been “unequivocal” in condemning Russia’s invasion as illegal, immoral and unjustifiable. “He has called for an immediate Russian withdrawal and end to the violence.”

Irish politicians said the statement was insufficient and that Higgins – and the government – needed to explicitly distance the Irish state from the letter
 
Predictions everybody might be able to agree are realistic. Or maybe not....

This 'prediction,' in particular, might disappoint a few on here:

'Ukraine has no means of effective conventional counterattack, while guerrilla raids are an optimistic way to precipitate a Russian collapse​


Ukraine would like to retake Kherson, on the west of the Dnieper river, but a senior administration figure admitted in private that “we do not have enough capacity to push them back”. Kyiv has shifted its strategy to mounting long-range missile attacks and daring special forces raids on Russian bases deep behind the frontlines.

The key presidential adviser Mykhailo Podolyak said the aim was to “create chaos within the Russian forces”, but while this will blunt the invader’s effectiveness, it is not likely it will lead to invaders collapsing in on themselves and voluntarily conceding Kherson, as some Ukrainian officials have hoped.'

 
Last edited:
Predictions everybody might be able to agree are realistic. Or maybe not....

This 'prediction,' in particular, might disappoint a few on here:

'Ukraine has no means of effective conventional counterattack, while guerrilla raids are an optimistic way to precipitate a Russian collapse​


Ukraine would like to retake Kherson, on the west of the Dnieper river, but a senior administration figure admitted in private that “we do not have enough capacity to push them back”. Kyiv has shifted its strategy to mounting long-range missile attacks and daring special forces raids on Russian bases deep behind the frontlines.

The key presidential adviser Mykhailo Podolyak said the aim was to “create chaos within the Russian forces”, but while this will blunt the invader’s effectiveness, it is not likely it will lead to invaders collapsing in on themselves and voluntarily conceding Kherson, as some Ukrainian officials have hoped.'


What are YOU trying to say? Putting a random quote in big bold letters doesn’t help
 
What are YOU trying to say? Putting a random quote in big bold letters doesn’t help
The cut and paste from the Guardian put it in bold. I did try to alter it, but it wouldn't seem to 'unbold.' (I am no expert at this kind of thing, I admit.) Don't let bold annoy you too much, though. It's just some words in bold.

As for what I'm trying to say... I was 'trying' to say that some Guardian journalist has made some predictions, which are up for discussion. And it wasn't a random quote, but a qote from the article in the link.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the in-depth analysis
Thanks for the thanks, but I don't remember claiming it was in-depth.

Maybe just read the linked-to article and comment on that? After all, I didn't write the fucker myself.
 
So what do you suggest Ukraine should do? As apparently it's so disapointing to us to get real.
I don't really understand why you want me to suggest anything, as if it would actually matter.

What do you suggest should happen (as if it would actually matter)?
 
Back
Top Bottom