War propaganda, 'Realists' and neocons, and the denigration of the war sceptics

[Dom Traynor]

Appeasers/cowards like you (haven't fully decided in your case) love to play up the threat of nuclear war. Problem is, Putin's cronies among the Russian elite aren't wild-eyed ideological zealots who are perfectly willing to cast their enormous and ill-gotten wealth, a lot of it outside Russia, into the fire of a nuclear conflagration.

Putin has of course made mouth-noises about having nukes, but it's bluster. So, scratch that alarmist nonsense.

How exactly is the damage going to be so severe for Russia that future aggression would take a generation to manifest? Russia ain't the one being invaded. Your claim makes no sense.

Wow. Its interesting to watch the utter mental decay of the liberal left who aim to denigrate critics of the war as cowards.

 

[NoXion]

Wow. Its interesting to watch the utter mental decay of the liberal left who aim to denigrate critics of the war as cowards.

Not all of them. Just the ones who talk as if Russia is some kind of force of nature, bound by history like a simple animal is bound by instinct. Which honestly seems like quite a Russophobic viewpoint to me.

 

[frogwoman]

One thing I will say, not that anyones promoting this here, is that the idea of 'the free world' is seriously complacent given what's happened in America with abortion let alone the accusations of interference in elections etc. Many Russian liberals in the early 1990s and 2000s thought they had joined 'the free world'

 

[Dom Traynor]

Not all of them. Just the ones who talk as if Russia is some kind of force of nature, bound by history like a simple animal is bound by instinct. Which honestly seems like quite a Russophobic viewpoint to me.

Why don't you just admit that you want to watch the world burn? It's totally understandable

 

[maomao]

I do love the certainty of so many internet experts that nuclear war is off the table either because of the insistence that all parties will act rationally (which is already not the case) or because of their in-depth knowledge of the Russian military command structure. I hope you're not all proved wrong but if you aren't it won't be because you were right.

 

[frogwoman]

I do love the certainty of so many internet experts that nuclear war is off the table either because of the insistence that all parties will act rationally (which is already not the case) or because if their in-depth knowledge of the Russian military command structure. I hope you're not all proved wrong but if you aren't it won't be because you were right.

I think its unlikely but, I didn't think Russia was gonna invade so

 

[maomao]

I think its unlikely but, I didn't think Russia was gonna invade so

I think (hope) it's unlikely. I just object to the reasons given for its not being possible.

 

[RD2003]

Appeasers/cowards like you (haven't fully decided in your case) love to play up the threat of nuclear war. Problem is, Putin's cronies among the Russian elite aren't wild-eyed ideological zealots who are perfectly willing to cast their enormous and ill-gotten wealth, a lot of it outside Russia, into the fire of a nuclear conflagration.

Putin has of course made mouth-noises about having nukes, but it's bluster. So, scratch that alarmist nonsense.

How exactly is the damage going to be so severe for Russia that future aggression would take a generation to manifest? Russia ain't the one being invaded. Your claim makes no sense.

I apologise for my cowardice. I haven't yet got to grips with the skills needed for fighting in a war by keyboard from 2000-odd miles away. Clearly some of you are going to be decorated for your efforts in defending us all at a remote distance from an enemy we're not at war with at some time in the future (assuming we're still here.)

At least one of the articles I've linked to explores this new blase/dismissive attitude to the nuclear war threat that previously kept madness from spilling over. But that was when we had, whatever else they may have been, more emotionally mature individuals presiding over a more emotionally mature society.

You display a touching faith in the idea that, in the event of us being dragged to the brink, rationality will still be the order of the day (the current posturing suggests that it has already broken down), and seem not to have considered the possibility of miscalculation or accident, or that misplaced bravado could trigger the worst.

 

[RD2003]

Not all of them. Just the ones who talk as if Russia is some kind of force of nature, bound by history like a simple animal is bound by instinct. Which honestly seems like quite a Russophobic viewpoint to me.

You mean Russophile not Russophobic. I am not the former, but you are quite clearly the latter.

Edit: On reflection, you might have meant Russophobic. But you are still wrong.

 

[RD2003]

I think its unlikely but, I didn't think Russia was gonna invade so

Whatever any of us think, it's merely that-us thinking.

 

[maomao]

Whatever any of us think, it's merely that-us thinking.

Well it's also us communicating and trying to make sense of the world.

 

[RD2003]

"The specific problems that the MIT scientists feared decades ago are a bit different than those facing us today."

I look forward to 2040 when the new Doomsday prophecy rolls around. I wonder what will be supposedly killing us all then?

Civilisation will never collapse until the time comes when it does.

 

[RD2003]

Well it's also us communicating and trying to make sense of the world.

Indeed. But it has no effect on what actually happens.

 

[krtek a houby]

Wow. Its interesting to watch the utter mental decay of the liberal left who aim to denigrate critics of the war as cowards.

It's a total battlefield on which the cowards and the war enthusiasts bristle with righteous indignation.

 

[maomao]

Indeed. But it has no effect on what actually happens.

It has a tiny, immeasurable effect but even here we are part of the tide of public opinion; butterflies flapping their wings and all that.

 

[RD2003]

One thing I will say, not that anyones promoting this here, is that the idea of 'the free world' is seriously complacent given what's happened in America with abortion let alone the accusations of interference in elections etc. Many Russian liberals in the early 1990s and 2000s thought they had joined 'the free world'

I remember the time well. But this is the point I've been making, which those who apparently can't contain their emotions don't seem able to grasp: in Russia the liberals never win out in the long term, and there is nothing to suggest that this will not always be the case.

And that's leaving aside the fact that, in Russia, a liberal is not necessarily what an outsider thinks he/she is, and, on the basis of events, can change their views overnight.

 

[RD2003]

It's a total battlefield on which the cowards and the war enthusiasts bristle with righteous indignation.

I took what I like to think was a little step towards overcoming my cowardice only this morning, when I managed to flap a bumble bee out through the back door with a tea towel.

Had to go back to bed for a bit afterwards, mind.

 

[krtek a houby]

Other posters can make decent, passionate and compelling points against war without sneering or comparing people to insects.

0/10

 

[RD2003]

Anyway, for what it's worth, my brother-in-law volunteered to drive an old UK ambulance full of medical supplies from Wales to the Ukraine border aroujnd Easter time. Are any of the pro-war brigade on here doing anything like that (genuine question, not point-scoring)?

He tells me anybody can volunteer.

 

[maomao]

Other posters can make decent, passionate and compelling points against war without sneering or comparing people to insects.

0/10

I don't think it was a metaphor, I think there really was a bumble bee.

 

[RD2003]

Other posters can make decent, passionate and compelling points against war without sneering or comparing people to insects.

0/10

And I clearly can't, so that's another black mark against my name.

 

[RD2003]

I don't think it was a metaphor, I think there really was a bumble bee.

Yes there was. I'm a bit puzzled as to what else Krtek thinks it might have been.

 

[maomao]

Are any of the pro-war brigade on here doing anything like that (genuine question, not point-scoring)?

Yeah, the one poster who actually did that (Gabi or whatever he's called now) wants NATO to bomb everything immediately.

 

[RD2003]

Yeah, the one poster who actually did that (Gabi or whatever he's called now) wants NATO to bomb everything immediately.

I'm quite surprised that more of them are not volunteering. Brother-in-law thinks he's in World War 2, mind you, but at least he took it beyond the keyboard.

 

[Yossarian]

Surprised the room wasn't ceded to the bumblebee, tbh.

 

[krtek a houby]

And I clearly can't, so that's another black mark against my name.

And which name to attribute it to? Hard to keep track...

 

[RD2003]

Surprised the room wasn't ceded to the bumblebee, tbh.

It nearly was. I could easily have NATOed it, but I'm apparently too much of an appeaser for such drastic measures.

Mrs RD is calling for a no-fly zone to be set up in the kitchen, however.

 

[LDC]

Anyway, for what it's worth, my brother-in-law volunteered to drive an old UK ambulance full of medical supplies from Wales to the Ukraine border aroujnd Easter time. Are any of the pro-war brigade on here doing anything like that (genuine question, not point-scoring)?

He tells me anybody can volunteer.

Two people I know well have gone, one working doing medical evacuations from east to west (and out of the country often) with a small NGO. Other has been taking in protective gear (helmets and body armour) in across the border from Poland to lefties and the smaller Territorial Defence units. I wouldn't say either of them are exactly 'pro-war' but I suspect you might have a some broader definition of that than me...

 

[RD2003]

Two people I know well have gone, one working doing medical evacuations from east to west (and out of the country often) with a small NGO. Other has been taking in protective gear (helmets and body armour) in across the border from Poland to lefties and the smaller Territorial Defence units. I wouldn't say eeither of them are exactly 'pro-war' but I suspect you might have a some broader definition of that than me...

B-in-law is definitely pro-war. In his head he's fighting Hitler.

But I genuinely applaud those who do such things, no matter what their view.

 

[mojo pixy]

Anyway, for what it's worth, my brother-in-law volunteered to drive an old UK ambulance full of medical supplies from Wales to the Ukraine border aroujnd Easter time. Are any of the pro-war brigade on here doing anything like that (genuine question, not point-scoring)?

He tells me anybody can volunteer.

I'm not pro war though I am anti invasion (watch those angels dance aint they pretty)

Frankly, there's a lot I'd be volunteering to do right now if I wasn't the sole carer for a young child. Believe that or not as you wish dear reader, I've got nothing to prove; but just sneering is just ridiculous. My young child appears to have more courage in the face of this war than many adults I'm hearing from; the courage of innocence and idealism it may be, but at least it's there.