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VAR and the Premier League

I'm not sure why that must be considered ludicrous. The facts are that we have had four players sent off this season already with just a handful of games played. One has been rescinded. One we cannot challenge as it was for two yellow cards, and you can't appeal them even when there is clear evidence that the first yellow card was totally unjustified. The third, in the opinion of many neutral commentators, was extremely harsh. Yuo have to remember that officials are people too, they have exactly the same emotions as everyone else. To have your work publicly criticised by someone of the standing of Klopp (who was handed a huge fine) will have stung and it isn't a huge step to imagine that they would try to "get their own back".
Yes, ludicrous. Every fan thinks this. Most think they're biased towards the top teams. They make mistakes, there is no bias, there is no conspiracy.
 
I'm not sure why that must be considered ludicrous. The facts are that we have had four players sent off this season already with just a handful of games played. One has been rescinded

5 out of 8 successfully appealed.

Amateurs.
 

5 out of 8 successfully appealed.

Amateurs.

Yeah but this situation is different because the manager had a moan about the refs. Surely unprecedented.
 
I'm not sure why that must be considered ludicrous. The facts are that we have had four players sent off this season already with just a handful of games played. One has been rescinded. One we cannot challenge as it was for two yellow cards, and you can't appeal them even when there is clear evidence that the first yellow card was totally unjustified. The third, in the opinion of many neutral commentators, was extremely harsh. Yuo have to remember that officials are people too, they have exactly the same emotions as everyone else. To have your work publicly criticised by someone of the standing of Klopp (who was handed a huge fine) will have stung and it isn't a huge step to imagine that they would try to "get their own back".
I've got to take issue with this. The "offside" goal is one issue - there's no denying that it was a fuckup of monumental proportions and all associated with Liverpool have every right to be fuming. It's not the same as subjective decisions being given/not given for/against your club, because VAR actually worked and came to an objectively correct decision before tossing it in the bin and carrying on regardless.

But there seems to be this prevailing narrative that it fed into a pattern of wrong decisions, both in that match and over the season as whole - it's that old chestnut of "say it often enough and it eventually becomes accepted fact".

Curtis Jones' red card - unfortunate from his point of view because he didn't set out to make a leg-breaker of a tackle, but a red card all the same. Intent doesn't come into it, players have a duty of care to their fellow professionals; much like rugby is attempting to change the way players tackle by punishing even accidental head contact, the front-on straight-legged studs-showing tackle is an absolute no because even the slightest mistake (like going over the ball) is recklessly endangering an opponent.

Diogo Jota's red card - not unfortunate at all. The "clear evidence that the first yellow card was totally unjustified" doesn't exist, in fact the opposite is true. Much has been made of the Spurs player 'tripping himself up'; yes, his left foot hits his own right boot and down he goes, but watch back a few frames further and you see where Jota's knee knocks against that left boot, causing the whole thing (bear in mind the pace Udogie was running at and that his leg was full speed, fully extended at the point of contact). The classic tap-tackle. It was a foul that stopped a clear break for Spurs, hence the yellow card that always accompanies such a foul (deliberate or not). It was also Jota's 3rd foul in quick succession, so the ref had every right to give it under the persistent fouling laws too.

The ref was actually decent on that day in difficult circumstances; just very badly let down by the shambolic VAR and a poor decision by his assistant (in my view he should have been capable of giving the on-field decision as onside, it was tight-ish but you expect a high standard - maybe asst refs are a bit complacent in the expectation that VAR will get it right anyway? A separate discussion...). The ongoing "aren't we hard done by" is a bit weird and just plain wrong.
 
The difference is that they are 8 red cards in six seasons, we have had 4 red cards in six games.
You should probably stop the violent conduct then.

Youre moaning about a conspiracy, about decisions that go against you. You have no fucking idea tbh. Over half of the red cards we got in 6 seasons were incorrect. You've had a bad offside call. And here we are weeks later, having had the audio released and dark mutterings about court cases.

Fucking hell, get over it. There's no conspiracy against Liverpool fucking Football Club. I can't believe I even have to type that.
 
But there seems to be this prevailing narrative that it fed into a pattern of wrong decisions, both in that match and over the season as whole - it's that old chestnut of "say it often enough and it eventually becomes accepted fact".
Except that LFC have never been a dirty team. Only four red cards in the previous four years backs that up.
Curtis Jones' red card - unfortunate from his point of view because he didn't set out to make a leg-breaker of a tackle, but a red card all the same. Intent doesn't come into it, players have a duty of care to their fellow professionals; much like rugby is attempting to change the way players tackle by punishing even accidental head contact, the front-on straight-legged studs-showing tackle is an absolute no because even the slightest mistake (like going over the ball) is recklessly endangering an opponent.
Totally disagree with the Jones red card. The ref got it right, worth a booking but at the point of contact there was very little momentum in his foot. The pundits who talked about it afterwards were unanimous that it wasn't a red, but what do they know? Describing it as a leg-breaker is a strange choice of words as the player on the receiving end got up and continued to play the rest of the match.
Diogo Jota's red card - not unfortunate at all. The "clear evidence that the first yellow card was totally unjustified" doesn't exist, in fact the opposite is true. Much has been made of the Spurs player 'tripping himself up'; yes, his left foot hits his own right boot and down he goes, but watch back a few frames further and you see where Jota's knee knocks against that left boot, causing the whole thing (bear in mind the pace Udogie was running at and that his leg was full speed, fully extended at the point of contact). The classic tap-tackle. It was a foul that stopped a clear break for Spurs, hence the yellow card that always accompanies such a foul (deliberate or not). It was also Jota's 3rd foul in quick succession, so the ref had every right to give it under the persistent fouling laws too.
You are the only person I have heard claim that the first booking was justified. It wasn't. Jota was jogging back, Udogie ran across him. I will leave it at that.
The ref was actually decent on that day in difficult circumstances; just very badly let down by the shambolic VAR and a poor decision by his assistant (in my view he should have been capable of giving the on-field decision as onside, it was tight-ish but you expect a high standard - maybe asst refs are a bit complacent in the expectation that VAR will get it right anyway? A separate discussion...). The ongoing "aren't we hard done by" is a bit weird and just plain wrong.
I'm old - retired recently - and have supported LFC my whole life. I have seen us be on both sides of dodgy decisions and have always believed "it evens itself out over a season". But I have never seen this volume of poor decisions going against us in such a short space of time. You are right, it is weird and it is plain wrong.
 
Except that LFC have never been a dirty team. Only four red cards in the previous four years backs that up.
No, what that backs up is that contrary to the belief of some here that there is a conspiracy against Liverpool, they actually get favourable decisions from refs.
 
Except that LFC have never been a dirty team. Only four red cards in the previous four years backs that up.

Totally disagree with the Jones red card. The ref got it right, worth a booking but at the point of contact there was very little momentum in his foot. The pundits who talked about it afterwards were unanimous that it wasn't a red, but what do they know? Describing it as a leg-breaker is a strange choice of words as the player on the receiving end got up and continued to play the rest of the match.

You are the only person I have heard claim that the first booking was justified. It wasn't. Jota was jogging back, Udogie ran across him. I will leave it at that.

I'm old - retired recently - and have supported LFC my whole life. I have seen us be on both sides of dodgy decisions and have always believed "it evens itself out over a season". But I have never seen this volume of poor decisions going against us in such a short space of time. You are right, it is weird and it is plain wrong.
Almost every single word in this ^ is nonsense. There have been 2 major decisions gone against Liverpool - the Macallister red card that was rescinded, and the Diaz onside goal. There is the caveat that the Diaz one is a big deal, because it wasn't a subjective decision. You were on the end of a shocker there, and measures need to put in place sharpish to ensure it doesn't happen again.

The rest, I get the distinct impression that you're hearing a majority of Liverpool opinions and the confirmation bias that goes with it. I'm in no way alone in recognising Jota's and Jones' as correct, and every single club gets dozens of these debatable, contentious ones every season.
 
Any predictions for the weekend? Hate derbies :(
Think we will win it but it may be closer than many expect. 2-1 my guess.
Or is there a predictions thread.
 
Konate avoids clear second yellow.

Klopp instantly brings on Matip to replace him. Dyche booked for complaining.

This must be one of the games where they have to give Liverpool everything to try to make it less obvious.
 
Konate avoids clear second yellow.

Klopp instantly brings on Matip to replace him. Dyche booked for complaining.

This must be one of the games where they have to give Liverpool everything to try to make it less obvious.
Klopp's incessant whinging has served its purpose. It was never about getting the 3 points back from Spurs, it was about getting a different 3 points neatly boxed up and gifted with a pretty bow on it 🎁
 
Klopp's incessant whinging has served its purpose. It was never about getting the 3 points back from Spurs, it was about getting a different 3 points neatly boxed up and gifted with a pretty bow on it 🎁
Yes. This is pretty standard Anfield though. Guess it doesn't hurt him to make doubly sure.
 
Konate avoids clear second yellow.

Klopp instantly brings on Matip to replace him. Dyche booked for complaining.

This must be one of the games where they have to give Liverpool everything to try to make it less obvious.

Video Assisted Reds
 
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