UVF Gunrunner Lindsay Robb Murdered
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OK, let's see
Riddled with UVF men. Give me some numbers here. There was a total of around 13,000 at the height of the troubles. How many were roughly UVF men, going by what you are saying it must be at least 4-5000. Hell the UVF leadership must be shocked by that one and pretty pissed that they did not collect their membership fees!!
The RUC was the most dangerous police job in the world, PERIOD!!! Worse than el Salvador. It's hardly suprising that there were a few bad ones.
If you have to sit around and watch your family and friends murdered and terrorised on a daily basis and watch while they get away with doing it, it's just suprising there were not alot more involved. Perhaps you could explain how and why there were so many UVF/UDA men arrested and charged with terrorist offences if the RUC was just an exntension of that grouping? Over 85% of loyalist crimes were solved and the terrorists put away. Compare that with only 5% of republican terrorists in the Tyrone region. Surely, if the RUC were just terrorists, then they would have had no hesitation in just going up and shooting these republican terrorists in the streets or in their home.
It shows enormous restraint and great policing to allow that. You show me another police force in the world that would allow that to happen. Sadistic bastards????? That's a bit rich coming from someone that supports people that carried out the murder and torture of a 62 year old Belfast woman, or the murder of ten innocent workmen at a roadside in Kingsmill for the horrendous crime of being a protestant.
You have got all your 'facts' from reading books and various pieces of republican propaganda, pity you were not around in the 70's or 80's I worked with a Catholic from Andersonstown who had joined, first the RUC reserve then went onto the full time police. More balls than you will have or your IRA friends here. Never allowed to go home to see his parents or family, living in fear that the IRA will kill his parents or sisters because of the job he has taken!! Couragous guy, something you will never be, or tollbar. His parents were the nicest people you could ever meet, fully supportive of what their son had done.
Perhaps you could post up some facts or figures as to the amount of UVF men in the force you say was 'riddled' with paramilitaries Some proof instead of propaganda would be nice. Surely you've read a book that gives you these figures, or did you just make it up
Oh yes, happy new year to you tas well, long live Georgie
Dilzybhoy said:
Riddled with UVF men. Give me some numbers here. There was a total of around 13,000 at the height of the troubles. How many were roughly UVF men, going by what you are saying it must be at least 4-5000. Hell the UVF leadership must be shocked by that one and pretty pissed that they did not collect their membership fees!!
The RUC was the most dangerous police job in the world, PERIOD!!! Worse than el Salvador. It's hardly suprising that there were a few bad ones.
If you have to sit around and watch your family and friends murdered and terrorised on a daily basis and watch while they get away with doing it, it's just suprising there were not alot more involved. Perhaps you could explain how and why there were so many UVF/UDA men arrested and charged with terrorist offences if the RUC was just an exntension of that grouping? Over 85% of loyalist crimes were solved and the terrorists put away. Compare that with only 5% of republican terrorists in the Tyrone region. Surely, if the RUC were just terrorists, then they would have had no hesitation in just going up and shooting these republican terrorists in the streets or in their home.
It shows enormous restraint and great policing to allow that. You show me another police force in the world that would allow that to happen. Sadistic bastards????? That's a bit rich coming from someone that supports people that carried out the murder and torture of a 62 year old Belfast woman, or the murder of ten innocent workmen at a roadside in Kingsmill for the horrendous crime of being a protestant.
You have got all your 'facts' from reading books and various pieces of republican propaganda, pity you were not around in the 70's or 80's I worked with a Catholic from Andersonstown who had joined, first the RUC reserve then went onto the full time police. More balls than you will have or your IRA friends here. Never allowed to go home to see his parents or family, living in fear that the IRA will kill his parents or sisters because of the job he has taken!! Couragous guy, something you will never be, or tollbar. His parents were the nicest people you could ever meet, fully supportive of what their son had done.
Perhaps you could post up some facts or figures as to the amount of UVF men in the force you say was 'riddled' with paramilitaries Some proof instead of propaganda would be nice. Surely you've read a book that gives you these figures, or did you just make it up
Oh yes, happy new year to you tas well, long live Georgie
Dilzybhoy said:
Tell me which ones. do you mean the young guy that was seriousely depressed and walked into the Sinn Fein office and killed three republicans and then took his own life? What other innocent catholics did they deliberately set out to kill on terrorist missions Dilzy
Hurry up and read some more books and let me know
revol68
what, fucking what?
see the problem I have with republicans is that they like to talk about the "War" and how alot of nasty things happen during a war and they are regretable and need to be put in the past etc etc. But when the British took the gloves off abit and shot a few of them we have never heard the fucking end of it.
Now I meant your collogues. Ag fuck it you know what I'm on about. I repeat. You were as guilty as those hay done the deeds.smash_g8 said:
You know who and what I'm talking about.
Kingsmill? What do you think was the incident that induced that incident???
I'd respect you more if you looked more closely ar yourself.
Oh and fuck off revol. Twat
smash_g8 said:
Why did you want to know that ?. notable that you say nothing of the murdering scum of the British army, RUC UDR, RIR and their subsections, The same Murdering scum operating under their fucking Butchers Apron and with their political masters, who created the conditions that gave birth to all the others anyway. What I find interesting is that someone starts a thread regarding the demise of loyalist tout, provacateur, and drug dealer, Robb, who seems to have had connections to most of the above and whose knowledge of the workings of said parties and where the bodies were buried, figuratively and possibly otherwise, could have led to his demise, very conveniently at a time when there are renewed discussions about the conditions for the return of OTRs and mutterings about truth and reconcilliation commissions.
It makes me wonder about the intentions of said derailers and whose interests they might be serving.
are you
Jazzzz (Dr).
I think you over estimate Mr Robb
I understand now, thanks for the explanation. It was the British armies fault that the Shankill road bomb went off, it's all clear now.
Given that McGuiness was less than honest at the Bloody Sunday hearings I think the T and R hearings would be a complete waste of time
Were you, like Dilzy, against the RUC and British army fighting back when they came under attack?
tollbar said:
Jazzzz (Dr).
I think you over estimate Mr Robb
I understand now, thanks for the explanation. It was the British armies fault that the Shankill road bomb went off, it's all clear now.
Given that McGuiness was less than honest at the Bloody Sunday hearings I think the T and R hearings would be a complete waste of time
Were you, like Dilzy, against the RUC and British army fighting back when they came under attack?
That has the ring of truth. There's a silent minority of non-sectarian folk of both sorts in the 6C and there certainly were a fair batch of roaring bigots in the UDR and to lesser extent the RUC who had the realirty check of seeing their own side at its worst. I've heard of instances of Catholic or less than Staunchly Orange RUC men being fatally touted out to PIRA by their fellow officers.foggypane said:
I'd add the locals working with the British military didn't take kindly to being ordered about by transient and often bewildered but consistently arrogant mainlanders either. A deep distrust of Irish Catholics serving in the British Army and the Garda and RUC was also sometimes justified, PIRA had its assets in them all.
^
Yep. The British army assets in NI/Ulster/6C were constantly befuddled due to the things you mention. The transient nature of most units, with the keenness to get 'results' by junior commanders, was a real problem and mitigated against {in my view} any long term thinking towards solving problems, rather than short/medium term crisis management. In 'crisis management' i would include practically every project, plan, operation of the British Army from 1969 to the mid 90s, as the whole strategy was one of kno king 'terrorist' groups down. The obvious and enlightened course is to remove the reason for the terrorism to be there - a political course, naturally, but one that could have been aided by the military in various positive ways.
These threads on U75 are a bit depressing aren't they? Witness smash-g8 and tollbar blithering on about who did what atrocity. people really do seem unable to accept that blowing up bystanders, and gunning down suspects, are wrong. It's impossible to argue with them either, if you say a plain statement of fact such as 'irish nationalists planted a bomb which killed a schoolboy in Warrington', you get attacked.
'Ah, but, it was the Brits fault, see, they were fighting the war against opressors...' blah de blah.
Or, say, 'the Army carried out illegal operations against terrorist suspects'
you get.. 'well, the rules were too restrictive, the IRA scum needed sorting, blah de blah.'
Bunch of fucking apologists.
Yep. The British army assets in NI/Ulster/6C were constantly befuddled due to the things you mention. The transient nature of most units, with the keenness to get 'results' by junior commanders, was a real problem and mitigated against {in my view} any long term thinking towards solving problems, rather than short/medium term crisis management. In 'crisis management' i would include practically every project, plan, operation of the British Army from 1969 to the mid 90s, as the whole strategy was one of kno king 'terrorist' groups down. The obvious and enlightened course is to remove the reason for the terrorism to be there - a political course, naturally, but one that could have been aided by the military in various positive ways.
These threads on U75 are a bit depressing aren't they? Witness smash-g8 and tollbar blithering on about who did what atrocity. people really do seem unable to accept that blowing up bystanders, and gunning down suspects, are wrong. It's impossible to argue with them either, if you say a plain statement of fact such as 'irish nationalists planted a bomb which killed a schoolboy in Warrington', you get attacked.
'Ah, but, it was the Brits fault, see, they were fighting the war against opressors...' blah de blah.
Or, say, 'the Army carried out illegal operations against terrorist suspects'
you get.. 'well, the rules were too restrictive, the IRA scum needed sorting, blah de blah.'
Bunch of fucking apologists.
I presume you
you, like me were born and raised in Northern Ireland and lived there for 30 years during the 70's and 80's. Or, are you talking as an expert who looked in from the outside. I do accept that blowing up and killing innocent bystanders was wrong (by both sides as I stated) That I never denied.
foggypane said:
you, like me were born and raised in Northern Ireland and lived there for 30 years during the 70's and 80's. Or, are you talking as an expert who looked in from the outside. I do accept that blowing up and killing innocent bystanders was wrong (by both sides as I stated) That I never denied.
smash_g8 said:
Many apologies. i was lumping you in with the various apologists who pop up on these threads.
I am an outsider - although I've worked over there a fair bit. hence my interest.
BTW, I was under the impression that the NI education system was a cut above ours on the mainland,
Here's a maths question from gcse maths 1999:
how many years are there in the 1970s/80s?
a) 20
b) 30
c) eleven?
I was never against them fighting back. I was against them starting it in the first place and then moaning about "our hands being tied".smash_g8 said:
I was against them fighting with impunity that was never afforded the republicans.
I was against the RUC being run by factions within the lol.
I was against british "soldiers" being there at all. The ones I know should be in carstaiars or Barlinnie or indeed Peterhead with all the other beasts.
I would have supported a UN peacekeeping force with no affiliations to Orange organisations in Scotland or northern england.
But that would have been to easy.
So in the absence of a peacekeeping force then, reluctingly, I supported the provos.
Honestly smash, you know me better than that.
Again, forgive spelling mistakes.
Amusing as always Dilzybhoy
I was against them fighting with impunity that was never afforded the republicans. Fighting with impunity??? Impunity to what? Check the records matey. 53 shootings by the RUC in 30 yrs. Can't think of any that were unjustified although I'm sure you can!!! I don't recall any incidents of RUC men going out on duty with the sole intention of killing republicans apart from that one off duty officer I mentioned. Over 300 of their own dead at the hands of the IRA. That to me shows remarkable restraintI was against the RUC being run by factions within the lol. Namely who please. I don't recall any member of the LOL giving me or anyone I knew orders. But obviousely you have read in a book somehwere that they did so please let me know who was giving the orders. Names please, there's a good boy
Honestly smash, you know me better than that.
Again, forgive spelling mistakes.[/QUOTE]
I was against them fighting with impunity that was never afforded the republicans. Fighting with impunity??? Impunity to what? Check the records matey. 53 shootings by the RUC in 30 yrs. Can't think of any that were unjustified although I'm sure you can!!! I don't recall any incidents of RUC men going out on duty with the sole intention of killing republicans apart from that one off duty officer I mentioned. Over 300 of their own dead at the hands of the IRA. That to me shows remarkable restraintI was against the RUC being run by factions within the lol. Namely who please. I don't recall any member of the LOL giving me or anyone I knew orders. But obviousely you have read in a book somehwere that they did so please let me know who was giving the orders. Names please, there's a good boy
Honestly smash, you know me better than that.
Again, forgive spelling mistakes.
[/QUOTE]Sounds like a trick question but
I would have to say 20
I would have to say 20
foggypane said:Many apologies. i was lumping you in with the various apologists who pop up on these threads.
I am an outsider - although I've worked over there a fair bit. hence my interest.
BTW, I was under the impression that the NI education system was a cut above ours on the mainland, Well, we produced Georgie Best, Alex Higgins and Joey Dunlop. All 3 the best in the world at their chosen sports and fully qualified AA members
Here's a maths question from gcse maths 1999:
how many years are there in the 1970s/80s?
a) 20
b) 30
c) eleven?
Dilzybhoy said:.
I would have supported a UN peacekeeping force with no affiliations to Orange organisations in Scotland or northern england.
But that would have been to easy.
So in the absence of a peacekeeping force then, reluctingly, I supported the provos.
Honestly smash, you know me better than that.
Again, forgive spelling mistakes.
IIRC there was a serious proposal to install a UN force about 1980. Naturally, the British govt. didn't entertain the idea. Can't remember who proposed it - just a flurry of headlines and a cartoon or 2.
I think you are over stating the 'affiliation' to the satsumas by the British army.
Most soldiers of my acquaintance really couldn't give a flying fuck about NI/6C, nor in fact the island as a whole. They were there on orders and carried out those orders. The nature of soldiering produced a fair bit of brutality. Had the troops been in to protect catholics rather than the status quo, the troops would have done exactly that, and prob ably in much the same way. Hardly anyone on the mainland, practically none in the Army, care the tiniest bit about the various sects and cults that make up your provincial political and cultural life. Honest.
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