HarrisonSlade
say NO to the vaccine
Is that why you have never been given the post of Northern Ireland Secretary?smash_g8 said:
UVF Gunrunner Lindsay Robb Murdered
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cemertyone
Well-Known Member
smash_g8 said:
Would you care to support your allegations with actual facts rather than un-supported comments....where do your figures come from the Northern Ireland office or Army head quarters in Lisburn...
cemertyone
Well-Known Member
smash_g8 said:
Yeah and you and your "type" remained stead fastly quite when your government`s murder squads where operating at will in the North Of Ireland........so don`t come here and try to claim some moral high ground over those of us he who saw armed rebellion against a miltary occuapition as a legitmate venture.......go do your Ghandi impersation elsewhere....
cemertyone
Well-Known Member
foggypane said:
As per usual a totally lucid and brillant over view of the evnts from the last 25 plus years from foggypane....is your name related to the fact that your "foggy" on the actual and events of the conflict and a "Pane" in the ass.....just wondering
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
foggypane said:
The IRA were reborn during a period of successful national liberation movements all around the world - this was the time of the American defeat in Vietnam. Hindsight is a nice thing isn't it? But if your born in a particular area, in a particular country during a particular period of time, then it doesn't come into play.
cemertyone
Well-Known Member
fanta said:
Oh look "slim shaddy`s" back.... hope you had a nice new year and all that.
Any ways, i remember you quoting David Mc Cricks ( i think from the Independent news paper on the deaths of people during the conflict) and in yesterdays Guardain he is quoted as giving the figures of 1,800 people killed by the IRA or assorted republican groups) and 2,000 plus killed by loyalist and british groups....so the gezzers claims dont add up.....
revol68
what, fucking what?
whether or not the provos or loyalists managed to kill more people is a sideshow. At the end of the day it was a horrific mess that left too many dead, in jail or scarred, and all for a pile of nationalist nonsense that served only to create a ready made layer of gangsters and sectarian career politicians.
And Cemetrytone the provo's knew fine well they couldn't beat the Brits in firepower so they settled on a strategy of destabilisation, hoping to make Northern Ireland ungovernable and to polarise the population. This strategy is well known and only changed with the hunger strikes and the realisation of a need for a political route.
So basically all those deaths so ole Gerry can fly a tri colour in his Stormont office.
And Cemetrytone the provo's knew fine well they couldn't beat the Brits in firepower so they settled on a strategy of destabilisation, hoping to make Northern Ireland ungovernable and to polarise the population. This strategy is well known and only changed with the hunger strikes and the realisation of a need for a political route.
So basically all those deaths so ole Gerry can fly a tri colour in his Stormont office.
my point was
That the amount of innocent women and children that the IRA set out to kill with bombs like 'bloody friday' Do you remember that one cemertyone? A bit like Bloody Sunday but totally forgotten about. Or la mon, or Enniskillen. Then the deliberate targetting of innocent people in the Shankill fish and chip shop, everyone from 2yr olds to grandmothers killed (I remember some excuse about all the top loyalists being in the shop at the time. Obviousely some government issued spacecraft took them away just before the bomb went off.
I know the prods mostly targeted innocent people too, like i said they were scum
Maybe you are just annoyed because most of your trusted friends have turned out to be informers or you did not end up with as many Armani suits as Gerry and Co
cemertyone said:
That the amount of innocent women and children that the IRA set out to kill with bombs like 'bloody friday' Do you remember that one cemertyone? A bit like Bloody Sunday but totally forgotten about. Or la mon, or Enniskillen. Then the deliberate targetting of innocent people in the Shankill fish and chip shop, everyone from 2yr olds to grandmothers killed (I remember some excuse about all the top loyalists being in the shop at the time. Obviousely some government issued spacecraft took them away just before the bomb went off.
I know the prods mostly targeted innocent people too, like i said they were scum
Maybe you are just annoyed because most of your trusted friends have turned out to be informers or you did not end up with as many Armani suits as Gerry and Co
You sarky bastard.mod said:
The British Army is currently standing in the corner wearing a pointy hat with a D on it having handed Basra over to a rabble of knuckle dragging sectarian nutcases in return for an easy life. It's not just the hats that are soft. Not much different from their limp wristed performance in the 6C or Palestine come to think of it.
More sarcasm from the Shankhill Moaner.
You are wrong there, they never had a hope in hell of winning militarily and the sensible ones knew that in 75 and went political. It's equally true that they weren't going to beaten that way, not losing isn't hard in a terrorist campaign and PIRA were extremely resilient. If the really stupid ones had got their way volunteers would still be earnestly engaging in pointless martrydoom.Isambard said:
smash_g8 said:
Once again, you give yourself away with the snidey little point about Bloody Sunday. Do you really think that anyone alive and taking an interest in 1972 has forgotten it ?. In my view, and I stand to be corrected by those here in a better position to know, is that after Bloody Sunday the gloves came off as far as the Provos were concerned, sad fact that I suspect that (1) operations were launched that should not have been launched because they didnt have the personnel, training or communications to manage them properly and (2) like all armed campaigns there were people involved that were psychologically unfit to be doing it, not to mention those who just wanted revenge. As with La Mon as with Enniskellin. And even the press were forced to admit the the UDA brigadiers had been meeting above the chip shop hours before the explosion. No better and certainly no worse then the record of the British state whose every word and rigged press statement you seem to accept. Get back to the original thread title, Lindsay Robb was a member of the Mid Ulster UVF and then LVF groups that were notorious for collaboration with the state back to the very well founded allegations about their involvement in the Dublin- Monoghan atrocities which I note that you see fit not to mention. How many years do you think that the activities of the Mid Ulster pseudo gang and its counterparts elsewhere extended the war by, while the brits set about infiltraing and destabilising the republican movement. Away and read fucking Kitson and the like. Or think about why thousands of young men and women weere moved to take up arms in a conflict that most knew probably would end in confinement or death without the luxury of a cushy posting to Germany or Belize, but I suppose its safer to sit above it all on the moral high ground isnt it ?. As for the Armani suits crack. Yes, its dead easy to have a go at Adams and co and with justification, but I wonder how many of their detractor sitting in judgement at a safe distance would have turned out after 30 years of seeing family and friends dying and dodging the bullets. Thats the consequences of long wars. Look at the ANC or the FLN in Algeria.
oi2002 said:
The good solid sharp report of a nail being firmly hit on the head. The IRA couldn't win, the British couldn't lose. Also, the IRA couldn't lose (except in the feasible but politically impossible case of a get - tough policy by the Army), and the British couldn't win (ditto).
Everyone knows this deep down - but there are still twats hankering for the good old days of killing.
cemertyone said:As per usual a totally lucid and brillant over view of the evnts from the last 25 plus years from foggypane....is your name related to the fact that your "foggy" on the actual and events of the conflict and a "Pane" in the ass.....just wondering
You berk.
In the other thread I referenced, I asked the IRA apologists to explain, if possible, how the IRA could ever have beaten (militarily) the British state. We'll leave aside the atrocity merry-go-round for now.
No one could explain that, including you.
Yet here you are making dickhead comments again. How is it a foggy understanding of northern Irish politics to point out that a few score loonies with guns are never going to beat 100000 loonies with guns? Eh?
Never mind events. Never mind right or wrong - everybody on here has their own version of that. The IRA could never have militarily defeated the UK state, obviously. Your daydreams about victorious rag-tag rebels are your own, and I hope you enjoy them. (Personally, I'd rather daydream about hordes of nubile teenagers getting the hots for me. But that's just me.)
But day dreams they are, and hissy fits against saner, more knowledgable posters won't change that.
revol68
what, fucking what?
foggypane said:
no it could have been won if only those pesky prods (whom we never really cared about blowing up) had rallied to the nations liberation! It's all the prods fault and until they recognise this and unite with us against the british state we will continue to treat them as fascist elements.
There you go the INLA's relationship to the protestant working class in summary.
foggypane said:
Oh yeas, the good old ' if the Army had been allowed to do its job it would have been over in 5 minutes' line. Sadly for the brits they couldnt do to the 'bogwogs' the sort of rape, pillage and murder they got away with in Kenya, Aden and Cyprus because the Irish were too politically sophisticated and further up the chain of the oppressed, the wrong colour and by the seventies, following Vietnam that sort of thing was politically counterproductive. Mind you, I dont supposed if you were having your houses smashed up on a nightly basis by Scots orange bigots or being looted by the Devon and Dorsets (as happened during the Falls curfew) you would have drawn a distinction.
The war is over, end of story. But the political processes that it set in motion certainly are not. I certainly hope that the working class of Ireland, north and south, Nationalist or Loyalist realising as more and more of this ultimately corrupting conflict comes to light see that theres no future in propping up the political establishments north and south and theres certainly no future for them in trusting the british establishment of whatever stripe.
revol68 said:
Well seeing as the UVF , LVF and UDA (Adair) had well documented connections to the NF, BNP and virtually every Brit fash group going and some of the Brit fash groups were hosting tours to hotspots like Cluan place until last year, you can understand why they might have thought that.
Some credulous people think the chaotic world of Prod terrorism was orchestrated by the British state. This is frankly laughable to anyone that has seen it at work, or more precisely ordering egg and Sausage Pizza and a 6 pack of Tennants extra while bagging up tabs. The Vatican has more influence with the Mafia than London ever had on the fat tattooed folk. During the Troubles 95% of British spookery stayed close to PIRA who afterall were in the buisness of killing the occasional Englishman not irrelevant 6C folk.
Bloody Sunday is not in any sane world morally equivalent to La Mon. The INLA set out to sadistically burn to death a meeting of dog breeders on the basis of a few of them being screws.
The best evidence I've seen about bloody Sunday suggests that a typically naive British officer, perhaps under political pressure and against loud RUC protests encouraged his men to be less than gentle to The Mick, a few of the jittery greeneyed boys fired on the crowd with intent to kill. Derry should not forgive them but there is a distinct whiff of cock up about the whole thing.
Sending a half simple volunteer of 3 days experience to his death delivering a bomb to a fish shop crowded with innocents based on unconfirmed bar room intelligence is similar piece of feeble minded incompetence to Bloody Sunday but was also blatantly sectarian in its acceptance of likely collatoral damage.
Bloody Sunday is not in any sane world morally equivalent to La Mon. The INLA set out to sadistically burn to death a meeting of dog breeders on the basis of a few of them being screws.
The best evidence I've seen about bloody Sunday suggests that a typically naive British officer, perhaps under political pressure and against loud RUC protests encouraged his men to be less than gentle to The Mick, a few of the jittery greeneyed boys fired on the crowd with intent to kill. Derry should not forgive them but there is a distinct whiff of cock up about the whole thing.
Sending a half simple volunteer of 3 days experience to his death delivering a bomb to a fish shop crowded with innocents based on unconfirmed bar room intelligence is similar piece of feeble minded incompetence to Bloody Sunday but was also blatantly sectarian in its acceptance of likely collatoral damage.
oi2002 said:
The credulous people you mention confuse 'orchestrated by the state' with 'helped at various levels by rogue elements in the security forces'.
Of course you could argue for ever about to what extent the State colluded with this, and there are plenty of examples where it was blatant and quite high up the tree.
To show what arseholes the Unionists can be, there are examples of the bigoted orange twats being so bigoted, and such twats, that they wouldn't even accept legitimate help where it was offered.
A source of mine was with a Scottsh regiment whose members had a substantial minority of catholics. He told me this tale - the RUC and UDR refused to take orders from 'green bastard' officers, and to patrol with 'fucking taig' soldiers. They were also suspected on strong evidence of passing times of patrols and even personal details of catholic soldiers to the Nationalist side.
It's that kind of blinkered moron who can't see the wood for the trees. Here on U75, even a simple statement like:
UVF Gunrunner Lindsay Robb Murdered
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Another scumbag bites the dust. More slaughter within the loyalist family presumably.
is picked over for perceived orange/green taints. As if, one's own 'side' are somehow less blameworthy when they carry out wicked crimes than the other 'side' when they do similar.
Pathetic really.
No you don't
Lets see now. You have been part of that organisation that called itself a "police force". That "police force" was riddled with UVF members, LOL members and sadistic bastards that thought it might be a good idea to go in a shoot up a pub on the off chance dessie o'hare just might be in the pub.
You personally knew these animals and so you are guilty by assocation.
Then of course the info passed on to your friends in the UVF/UDA, much of it false and innocent people were murdered as a result.
Your as guilty as anyone.
And you know it as well as I do.
Happy new year btw.
Appols for the spelling I've still to download a spellchecker for my new os
Your conscience is as clear as your thoughts. Not very.smash_g8 said:
Lets see now. You have been part of that organisation that called itself a "police force". That "police force" was riddled with UVF members, LOL members and sadistic bastards that thought it might be a good idea to go in a shoot up a pub on the off chance dessie o'hare just might be in the pub.
You personally knew these animals and so you are guilty by assocation.
Then of course the info passed on to your friends in the UVF/UDA, much of it false and innocent people were murdered as a result.
Your as guilty as anyone.
And you know it as well as I do.
Happy new year btw.
Appols for the spelling I've still to download a spellchecker for my new os
You're a right dickhead sometimes Dilzybhoy!
That is probably the most ridiculous risible piece of crap your exhausted brain cells have ever put together.
Either you're calling smash_g8 a UVF member for which you have some evidence or you're talking utter bollocks.
Which is it, gobshite?
That is probably the most ridiculous risible piece of crap your exhausted brain cells have ever put together.
Either you're calling smash_g8 a UVF member for which you have some evidence or you're talking utter bollocks.
Which is it, gobshite?
UVF Gunrunner Lindsay Robb Murdered
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another scumbag bites the dust. More slaughter within the loyalist family presumably.
Indeed. No one can argue the Robb was not (a) a loyalist, and (b) a scumbag
Who when he wasnt giving 'political advice' to the UVF or acting as an agent provaceur in gun running cases was acting as a paid perjuerer at the behest of the state, not of course forgetting his more recent activities peddling his wares around the deprived communities of Glasgow, and doubtless thats not the half of it.
Perhaps in future all posters on anything regarding Ireland should add a disclaimer stating that the post is not intended to serve the agenda of any side in the conflict past and present to avoid the derailers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another scumbag bites the dust. More slaughter within the loyalist family presumably.
Indeed. No one can argue the Robb was not (a) a loyalist, and (b) a scumbag
Who when he wasnt giving 'political advice' to the UVF or acting as an agent provaceur in gun running cases was acting as a paid perjuerer at the behest of the state, not of course forgetting his more recent activities peddling his wares around the deprived communities of Glasgow, and doubtless thats not the half of it.
Perhaps in future all posters on anything regarding Ireland should add a disclaimer stating that the post is not intended to serve the agenda of any side in the conflict past and present to avoid the derailers.
Perhaps
You could offer up the press cuttings and some facts that they were meeting in the fish and chip hours earlier? They were not, they had actually met in a coffee shop further down the road towards the city center. Get your facts right before trying to justify the murder of 10 innocent people. Those people were always going to die. They went in with a bomb and an 11 second fuse, only the bombers were going to escape. They also knew that lots more innocent catholics were going to die in retaliation attacks after the bomb, in fact 17 in total. But then again, protecting the innocent catholic population was never high on the IRA's agenda was it What was your rack in the IRA tollbar? Chief armchair Lt?
tollbar said:
You could offer up the press cuttings and some facts that they were meeting in the fish and chip hours earlier? They were not, they had actually met in a coffee shop further down the road towards the city center. Get your facts right before trying to justify the murder of 10 innocent people. Those people were always going to die. They went in with a bomb and an 11 second fuse, only the bombers were going to escape. They also knew that lots more innocent catholics were going to die in retaliation attacks after the bomb, in fact 17 in total. But then again, protecting the innocent catholic population was never high on the IRA's agenda was it What was your rack in the IRA tollbar? Chief armchair Lt?
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