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US election 2012

Nate Silver of the NYT now gives Obama a 71.4% chance of winning. It was about 80% before the debate. His is a good site to follow the changing story....better than just the polls. When I want to know where things stand I check with Nate. The right hand column is where the good info is.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/
 
Watched the VP debate last night, thought that Biden had won. Have woken up to see Fox complaining that Biden was over the top, rude and disrespectful to Ryan, so it seems that they thought he had won as well.

There were many highlights, but Ryan agreeing with the administrations policy of leaving Afgantistan in 2014 and then attacking the adminstration for leaving Afganistan in 2014 was probably the best.
 
agricola said:
Watched the VP debate last night, thought that Biden had won. Have woken up to see Fox complaining that Biden was over the top, rude and disrespectful to Ryan, so it seems that they thought he had won as well.

There were many highlights, but Ryan agreeing with the administrations policy of leaving Afgantistan in 2014 and then attacking the adminstration for leaving Afganistan in 2014 was probably the best.
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I liked Ryan attacking the stimulus bill and Biden pointing out that Ryan had written him a letter begging for some of that stimulus money for Wisconsin :D
 
I only caught the last 1/3rd of it, and even then the stream kept skipping. But it was quite good entertainment, really. I can understand why people might get all "Biden was too aggressive" but quite frankly, all I saw was his utter frustration and contempt for someone who clearly had absolutely no fucking idea what he was talking about. It's been said recently that it seems to be more important in the US media at the moment that people be polite and respectful than it is that people tell the truth. And as such, it's far more likely that Biden will be reprimanded on the news and comment shows for any 'aggression' he displayed than Ryan would be for being incompetent and lying.

One part I particularly liked was, when they were asked what sort of men they were, and what they would bring to the Oval Office that no other candidate could bring, and Ryan said "honesty." Nearly spat all over my keyboard at that one.
 
SpineyNorman said:
Where did this ash mahay come from? I don't know about anyone else but I'm in awe of his breadth of knowledge, power of reason and debating prowess.

Don't listen to the haters ash, you're my hero. And I've had numerous PMs from other posters expressing the exact same sentiment.
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Well I think you're taking the piss out of a colossus of modern thinking... listen ...Ash Mahay is the person on the "inside track" - friend and confident of the odd enlightened , but oh so typical, millionaire. The person with all the factoids at the fingertips, the one who understands that today's 21st century capitalism is way, way, different to all that bad old exploitationist 20th century type capitalist shit...

yeh.. a right wing pro capitalist Troll.... but hey, in a good way.
 
Vintage Paw said:
And as such, it's far more likely that Biden will be reprimanded on the news and comment shows for any 'aggression' he displayed than Ryan would be for being incompetent and lying.
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Indeed. One of the most eye-opening parts on this was the closing segment on abortion, in which Ryan came out with the usual memes but ended up being dispatched to the boundary with aplomb by Biden:

Moderator Martha Raddatz: Vice President Biden?

Joe Biden: My religion defines who I am, and I’ve been a practicing Catholic my whole life. And has particularly informed my social doctrine. The Catholic social doctrine talks about taking care of those who — who can’t take care of themselves, people who need help. With regard to — with regard to abortion, I accept my church’s position on abortion as a — what we call a de fide doctrine. Life begins at conception in the church’s judgment. I accept it in my personal life.

But I refuse to impose it on equally devout Christians and Muslims and Jews, and I just refuse to impose that on others, unlike my friend here, the — the congressman. I — I do not believe that we have a right to tell other people that — women they can’t control their body. It’s a decision between them and their doctor. In my view and the Supreme Court, I’m not going to interfere with that. With regard to the assault on the Catholic church, let me make it absolutely clear, no religious institution, Catholic or otherwise, including Catholic Social Services, Georgetown Hospital, Mercy Hospital, any hospital, none has to either refer contraception, none has to pay for contraception, none has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide. That is a fact.

That is a fact. Now with regard to the way in which the — we differ, my friend says that he — well I guess he accepts Governor Romney’s position now, because in the past he has argued that there was — there’s rape and forcible rape. He’s argued that in the case of rape or incest, it was still — it would be a crime to engage in having an abortion. I just fundamentally disagree with my friend.
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Vintage Paw said:
I only caught the last 1/3rd of it, and even then the stream kept skipping. But it was quite good entertainment, really. I can understand why people might get all "Biden was too aggressive" but quite frankly, all I saw was his utter frustration and contempt for someone who clearly had absolutely no fucking idea what he was talking about. It's been said recently that it seems to be more important in the US media at the moment that people be polite and respectful than it is that people tell the truth. And as such, it's far more likely that Biden will be reprimanded on the news and comment shows for any 'aggression' he displayed than Ryan would be for being incompetent and lying.

One part I particularly liked was, when they were asked what sort of men they were, and what they would bring to the Oval Office that no other candidate could bring, and Ryan said "honesty." Nearly spat all over my keyboard at that one.
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I was initially turned off because of Biden's laughing & aggressiveness. But because it ended up being backed up with some really good arguments, I think it was actually a very smart move. Because people will remember it, and the sentiment got through loud and clear "don't trust a single word this guy says!" which was what was missing from the Obama/Romney debate.
 
And there were moments when Biden was talking quite reservedly as well. He wasn't raising his voice, he seemed measured, calm, and even quiet at times, but it gave the impression - to me at least - that there was no showmanship, no grandstanding, but that he'd been doing a particular job for 4 years, he knew what he was talking about, and he was trying to explain what he saw as the reality of the situation.

When they were discussing the military, the UN, and when the 2014 pull-out date, etc., I might not agree with American militarism, but it really did come across like Biden had been doing this job for 4 years now, and he knew far better about the pragmatic reality of what it's like dealing with these situations day-to-day, and Ryan had nothing but naive, childish "U SUCK" things to say in return.

I also liked Biden and Martha's responses when Ryan was digging himself deeper re: diplomatic aid.
 
And I've got to say, all this "Russia is our number one geopolitical enemy" stuff just sounds so backwards and naive, like a hankering after the 'good old days' of the Cold War and the fear it instilled in people at the time. I readily admit to not being that well-versed in the scope of Russia's influence, but it sounds like a massive, twisted mess of trying to hype up fears over the middle east, and Iran in particular, with adding the old Soviet menace into the equation for good measure.

Resurrecting the ghost of that fear can be very helpful for a conservative administration.
 
ayatollah said:
Well I think you're taking the piss out of a colossus of modern thinking... listen ...Ash Mahay is the person on the "inside track" - friend and confident of the odd enlightened , but oh so typical, millionaire. The person with all the factoids at the fingertips, the one who understands that today's 21st century capitalism is way, way, different to all that bad old exploitationist 20th century type capitalist shit...

yeh.. a right wing pro capitalist Troll.... but hey, in a good way.
Click to expand...

How did you get that from my post ayatollah? Ash is a giant among men, the Socrates of our times. Far be it from me to challenge his authority as world expert on everything and person who definitely doesn't lie about his achievements and life experiences in an attempt to give his arguments more weight.

He's not right wing or pro capitalist or a troll. He's pro truth and objective facts and since trolls live under bridges I doubt they have internet access.

So leave ash alone, you're just a jealous bully :mad:
 
Gingerman said:
Biden gave the sort of bullish authoritative performance that Obama should have given last week.
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Yep.

I think in the lead up to the debates, people were saying that it would be bad if Obama came across as smug - something he's often accused of by the GOP. Perhaps he dialled it down too much, thinking that he was merely avoiding sounding like he was hectoring. But if that's the case, it massively backfired, because he sounded hesitant; unsure of himself, his policies, and the things Romney was saying; and basically just appeared on the back foot the whole time.
 
From a store window in New Jersey. Guess the owner is not too fond of Obamacare.

ht_obama_health_care_display_ll_121010_wmain.jpg
 
Mitt Romney pays tribute to Margaret Thatcher

Republican presidential candidate took to Twitter to praise the former prime minister on her 87th birthday
Mitt-Romney-010.jpg

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney described Margaret Thatcher as a 'tower of strength' on her 87th birthday. Photograph: David Kohl/AP
US presidential candidate Mitt Romney has hailed Margaret Thatcher as a "tower of strength in the cause of liberty" as a tribute to the former prime minister on her 87th birthday.

Baroness Thatcher celebrated the occasion on Saturday by having lunch at Green's Restaurant and Oyster Bar in London's exclusive St James's district with her son Mark and his wife.

Writing on Twitter, Romney - the Republican challenger engaged in a close fight with Democrat Barack Obama for the White House in next month's election - said: "The US is blessed with courageous friends.

"Happy Birthday to the Iron Lady, Margaret Thatcher - a tower of strength in the cause of liberty."
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/13/mitt-romney-margaret-thatcher-tribute?newsfeed=true
 
Koch Industries, other CEOs warn employees of layoffs if Obama is reelected
In it was a letter, dated Oct. 1, from Koch Industries president Dave Robertson implicitly warning that "many of our more than 50,000 U.S. employees and contractors may suffer the consequences" of voting for President Obama and other Democrats in the 2012 elections, a list of conservative candidates the company's political action committee endorses and a pair of editorials: one, by David Koch, supporting Mitt Romney, and the other, by Charles Koch, condemning Obama.
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And they also sent out a "voter information pack" to everyone too. And others, like
Last week, David Siegel, the founder and CEO of Florida-based Westgate Resorts, sent an email to employees informing them that layoffs are likely if Obama is reelected:
It's quite simple. If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, as our current President plans, I will have no choice but to reduce the size of this company. Rather than grow this company I will be forced to cut back. This means fewer jobs, less benefits and certainly less opportunity for everyone
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Siegel and his wife were apparently on TV recently on the subject of their quest to build the biggest house in America.

I do remember a couple of emails going around when I was working in the US suggesting who we should vote for (Republican, amazingly enough) but this level seems new.
 
...Just when you think that powerful business leaders and their involvement/interference in politics couldn't possibly hit a new low, along comes this bunch of headbangers to prove just how wrong you can be...

Sickening and alarming stuff :(
 
Not even bribes, threats. :(

and

Will H.I.G.-Owned E-voting Machines Give Romney the White House?

Electronic voting machines owned by Mitt Romney's business buddies and set to count the votes in Cincinnati could decide the 2012 election.
The narrative is already being hyped by the corporate media. As Kelly O'Donnell reported for NBC's Today Show on Monday, October 8, Ohio's Hamilton County is "ground zero" for deciding who holds the White House come January, 2013....
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