Urban 75 Informal Anarchist Actions

[Flavour]

Yes. The close relationship between humans and dogs has existed for many thousands of years. No such relationship with pigs has existed. Whales are endangered animals while pigs are not. Can we have the "some animals are more intelligent than kids with learning difficulties" line, as espoused by people like Singer, just so we can have the full set? That said, the treatment of animals is appalling and meat free is the way to go.

Pigs were domesticated several times in prehistory, perhaps as long as 15,000 years ago. Certainly 10,000 years of humans living in close contact with pigs is close to irrefutable. So actually, you're wrong: there has been a close relationship with pigs for a similar time-scale. Just the purpose of that relationship is different. And even then, pigs (especially miniature breeds) have been kept as pets for a long time, and dogs are eaten in some parts of the world too. So it's not so clear cut, actually.

As for whales, would you consider eating them if they weren't endangered? What if you were in Japan or the Faroe islands, where it's considered less-than-taboo to eat them?

There's no reason to trot out some old Singer line about people in vegetative states, it's not relevant to this discussion. The point is, both you and mx wcfc recognize the meat industry as bad and the latter even sympathises with this "action" (and I'm not sure I do, to be honest, I'm just jumping on the aversion to speciesism as a concept) but still feel the need to justify our relationship with animals as "that's just the way things are" (see you argument of dogs v pigs). I don't just accept it, the way things are, re: our consideration of different animal species. I'm questioning it. But I don't think bombing abbatoirs is going to be particularly helpful in the "cause" or whatever, if the final goal is mass uptake of veganism.

I'm not vegan, btw.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I'm not vegan, btw.

We could have guessed that from your username etc etc...

 

[Serge Forward]

Pigs were domesticated simply for food; dogs for survival, security, companionship, work and even a social role. So the relationships have completely different qualities. That's why we treat both species differently. Sure, it's speciesist, if you want to call it that, but so what? Context is important.

 

[rekil]

Bizarre coffee-throwing incident puts dampener on Dundalk Councillor's holiday

“There were three of them messing around at the coffee machine. We were waiting ages for the coffee because they were joking around so much.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

I shouted "enjoy your killing spree. Your business kills children in Yeman" on the DLR yesterday when surrounded by chirpy suits going to the Arms Fair at excel

 

[Treacle Toes]

I shouted "enjoy your killing spree. Your business kills children in Yeman" on the DLR yesterday when surrounded by chirpy suits going to the Arms Fair at excel

 

[SpineyNorman]

Yes. The close relationship between humans and dogs has existed for many thousands of years. No such relationship with pigs has existed. Whales are endangered animals while pigs are not. Can we have the "some animals are more intelligent than kids with learning difficulties" line, as espoused by people like Singer, just so we can have the full set? That said, the treatment of animals is appalling and meat free is the way to go.

Agreed. It's a silly argument that nobody familiar with historical and evolutionary relationship between humans and dogs would make. And when I'm being serious it's not an argument anyone needs to make, as you say it's bad enough without it.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Pigs were domesticated simply for food; dogs for survival, security, companionship, work and even a social role. So the relationships have completely different qualities. That's why we treat both species differently. Sure, it's speciesist, if you want to call it that, but so what? Context is important.

We'd also not have developed agriculture or civilisation in the way we did without dogs. Dogs are fucking ace

 

[Flavour]

Agreed. It's a silly argument that nobody familiar with historical and evolutionary relationship between humans and dogs would make. And when I'm being serious it's not an argument anyone needs to make, as you say it's bad enough without it.

we've established that the main reason (but by no means only) to raise dogs in history has been for companionship and so on. likewise that the main reason to raise pigs throughout history has been to eat them. but that doesn't justify eating those miserable domesticated pigs whose entire lives are spent in squalid, cramped conditions. "but that's the way it's always been throughout human history!" ... no it's not.

 

[SpineyNorman]

we've established that the main reason (but by no means only) to raise dogs in history has been for companionship and so on. likewise that the main reason to raise pigs throughout history has been to eat them. but that doesn't justify eating those miserable domesticated pigs whose entire lives are spent in squalid, cramped conditions. "but that's the way it's always been throughout human history!" ... no it's not.

Not just companionship and so on. Security, both in terms of defending humans themselves and their crops/livestock. We'd never have kept those pigs without dogs. They were our nose, ears, legs and teeth when it came to defending ourselves and livelihoods from other animals. They could patrol land in a way we could never do. Its simply not comparable to an animal that has only ever been food or even a companion.

Without dogs our social and possibly even biological evolution would be unrecognisable. You can't say that about pigs.

Humans and dogs are effectively partner species, we've evolved together in a symbiotic relationship of a depth we simply don't have with other animals.

I agree with you on the conditions pigs are kept in so not sure why you're bringing that up. I even agree we shouldn't eat them, to be completely honest I just enjoy pork more than I care.

 

[Flavour]

to be completely honest I just enjoy pork more than I care.

exactly

 

[A380]

Whereas cats don't have a fuck to give about us.

Which is why they are better.

 

[Funky_monks]

Well, this thread stopped being fun....

 

[8ball]

Well, this thread stopped being fun....

I’m not sure ‘whining’ counts as an informal anarchist action.

 

[kebabking]

The Norton-sub-Gimlet branch of the Worcestershire Anarchist Federation (Continuity (M/L)) has today released the following statement:

Earlier today, a Comrade of the federation struck a blow against the hated oppressor and it's police state by walking his (without presumption of ownership, given that property is theft) dog without an identifying disk in open defiance of the so-called-law requiring him (or her) to do so.

The federation wishes to make clear - class enemy's claims to the contrary - that this was a long planned action, and absolutely not the result of the dog going swimming yesterday, his collar getting wet, the collar being hung up to dry and the comrade forgetting to put it back on this morning while attempting to herd children and dogs out of the door.

This action is just the beginning Comrades!

We will continue this fight for freedom in the face... Cont. P94

 

[Teaboy]

I'm afraid comrade that the dog is the true hero in this fight against state oppression. For you to be claiming the glory it is nothing more than despicable vanguardism.

 

[sunnysidedown]

We'd also not have developed agriculture or civilisation in the way we did without dogs. Dogs are fucking ace

the cornerstones of human misery. no wonder I don't have time for those four legged, arse licking, shit eating, ball sniffing, buggers.

 

[Proper Tidy]

the cornerstones of human misery. no wonder I don't have time for those four legged, arse licking, shit eating, ball sniffing, buggers.

Tbf I reckon it'd be a lot more miserable if we hadn't have established a system of food cultivation capable of sustaining us without spending 15 hours a day hunting and ending up eating a few berries and some moss at midnight

 

[SpineyNorman]

I've been off work with a stomach bug, the only remaining symptom of which is noxious, unbearable (even to me) farts.

Today I was able to go in the gaffers office on 5 separate occasions and let rip.

This will continue (for as long as my guts allow)

 

[Funky_monks]

I’m not sure ‘whining’ counts as an informal anarchist action.

Worked though, it seems.

 

[A380]

I've been off work with a stomach bug, the only remaining symptom of which is noxious, unbearable (even to me) farts.

Today I was able to go in the gaffers office on 5 separate occasions and let rip.

This will continue (for as long as my guts allow)

Dis you follow through on this plan?...

 

[mx wcfc]

At the station this morning queuing for a coffee and a paper. The bloke behind me was clearly in a hurry, and I wasn’t. So I turned around and was just about to offer to let him ahead of me, when I saw the Daily Mail in his hand. Fucker had to dash off to get his train without it.

 

[8ball]

I've been blatantly ignoring my state-sanctioned exercise.

 

[isvicthere?]

Tbf I reckon it'd be a lot more miserable if we hadn't have established a system of food cultivation capable of sustaining us without spending 15 hours a day hunting and ending up eating a few berries and some moss at midnight

Actually, in the book "Sapiens" by that Israeli guy (forget his name) he argues that the transition from hunter-gatherer to farmer was not the great liberation many have painted it as, since hunter-gatherers worked less hard and fewer hours. However, the massive increase in production of calories agriculture enabled led to a huge rise in population which couldn't be supported nutritionally any other way.

 

[8ball]

Actually, in the book "Sapiens" by that Israeli guy (forget his name)

<hopes you're not thinking of Uri Geller>

 

[8ball]

Actually, in the book "Sapiens" by that Israeli guy (forget his name) he argues that the transition from hunter-gatherer to farmer was not the great liberation many have painted it as, since hunter-gatherers worked less hard and fewer hours. However, the massive increase in production of calories agriculture enabled led to a huge rise in population which couldn't be supported nutritionally any other way.

More seriously, I've read similar and it kind of makes you wonder what circumstances may have led to this transition (over a pretty long time in the human scale of years). I read somewhere also that it could well have involved a decline in nutritional quality for some time.

My memory is hazy - I can't back any of this up.

 

[yield]

Actually, in the book "Sapiens" by that Israeli guy (forget his name) he argues that the transition from hunter-gatherer to farmer was not the great liberation many have painted it as, since hunter-gatherers worked less hard and fewer hours. However, the massive increase in production of calories agriculture enabled led to a huge rise in population which couldn't be supported nutritionally any other way.

More seriously, I've read similar and it kind of makes you wonder what circumstances may have led to this transition (over a pretty long time in the human scale of years). I read somewhere also that it could well have involved a decline in nutritional quality for some time.

My memory is hazy - I can't back any of this up.

Read "Against the Grain" by James C. Scott last year which goes into this.

Against the Grain by James C Scott review – the beginning of elites, tax, slavery

We used to think moving on from a hunter-gatherer lifestyle meant improvement. Not any more, argues this excellent study of the earliest states

www.theguardian.com

The rise of sedentary agriculture was forced by environmental changes in the middle east.

 

[isvicthere?]

Read "Against the Grain" by James C. Scott last year which goes into this.

Against the Grain by James C Scott review – the beginning of elites, tax, slavery

We used to think moving on from a hunter-gatherer lifestyle meant improvement. Not any more, argues this excellent study of the earliest states

www.theguardian.com

The rise of sedentary agriculture was forced by environmental changes in the middle east.

Yield, thanks for that. Will check it out.

 

[isvicthere?]

<hopes you're not thinking of Uri Geller>

No, that would be mind-bending! Actually, his name is Yuval Noah Harari.

 

[kebabking]

during my (English) state sanctioned exercise yesterday - in which I had a delightful 20k walk in the Llanfair Waterdine-Clun area of Shropshire - I crossed into Wales a number of times.

This, fraternal comrades, was a planned action and hammer blow by the vanguard of the revolutionary prolatariat against the capitalist lapdog so called 'Welsh Government' and it's hated oppression of the hillwalking class.

After this crushing victory, which the so called 'Welsh Government' was powerless to respond to, I celebrated by having an ice cream while paddling in the River Clun.