Upstairs At The Department Store (restaurant)

[discobastard]

Exactly. He started being controversial so he can hardly complain about the subsequent debate following his tone.

Absolutely not. He or she put forward a very well expressed and balanced view. And there was no subsequent debate, but there *were* a lot of cherrypicked and decoy arguments shouted back.

It's OK to admit that you don't want to have a reasoned conversation about any of this.

 

[discobastard]

whatwilldid

You haven't answered my earlier question.

I think if you go back and actually read his/her posts then you will see that they are very clear about their views on S&Q. Do that and then come back and ask them to clarify.

I don't understand why posters only read what they want to hear from those they may disagree with

 

[Gramsci]

That is utterly ridiculous and wildly disingenuous. You clearly haven't read the poster's argument.

Any excuse *not* to have a debate.

I have and I think littleseb is correct.

 

[discobastard]

Its a straightforward question to remarks the poster made about it preferably being community space.

I will leave the poster to answer the question.

Why don't you put your views forward actually in relation to their posts?

 

[Gramsci]

I think if you go back and actually read his/her posts then you will see that they are very clear about their views on S&Q. Do that and then come back and ask them to clarify.

I don't understand why posters only read what they want to hear from those they may disagree with

I asked clear and direct question. He/ she didn't answer it. What are you going on about? I think you should calm down.

 

[Gramsci]

Why don't you put your views forward actually in relation to their posts?

I did. Please stop.

 

[discobastard]

We are just going to have to disagree.

I would like whatwilldid respond. He has had a lot to say here. So could respond to the question.

I think that ship has sailed (though I thought they expressed themselves very well). whatwilldid got such a blunt and disingenuous kicking that they decided to leave. And now you want them to come back?

If you can't be bothered to engage with their original posts then why are you asking them to come back?

 

[Gramsci]

I think that ship has sailed (though I thought they expressed themselves very well). whatwilldid got such a blunt and disingenuous kicking that they decided to leave. And now you want them to come back?

If you can't be bothered to engage with their original posts then why are you asking them to come back?

For the life of me I don't know what has got into you.

Its not me that has not engaged. Its the other way round.

 

[discobastard]

Only joined couple days ago to have a go. Mostly at Ed.

Seemed pretty legit to me. Intelligent argument, wasn't having a go in the way that some do. Was very respectful, clearly stated their position and the community activities they were involved in. Are there any issues with that?

 

[T & P]

I have heard people on Loughborough Junction Council estates complaining. People do hear of these things. Surprising number of locals read Brixton Buzz for example. They mention it to me. Brixton buzz gets a lot of traffic.

And some Brixton Buzz articles IMO can sometimes be heavily biased and fail to give the the whole picture, in particular if the author cares strongly about the subject. The recent article on this issue is in my view a good example of this.

That is fine of course- everyone else in that industry does it and everyone is entitled to their opinion But If someone reads a BB piece on something uncritically and does not have access to other views on the matter, it is not difficult to imagine many of its readers will form their opinion based solely on what they've read on BB.

 

[discobastard]

They are also looking for THE RIGHT TYPE OF CLIENTELE

Yes, and you can infer anything you like from that can't you?

• We don't want poor people who can't spend money on cocktails
• We don't want coked up wankers
• Etc

 

[Gramsci]

Seemed pretty legit to me. Intelligent argument, wasn't having a go in the way that some do. Was very respectful, clearly stated their position and the community activities they were involved in. Are there any issues with that?

Have you any proof of this? The poster only joined a few days back. Not even lurking here as member. Unless I see someone posting here on regular basis for at least several months I don't assume everything they say about themselves is correct.

I looked up his/ her profile and got wary.

 

[teuchter]

I think that ship has sailed (though I thought they expressed themselves very well). whatwilldid got such a blunt and disingenuous kicking that they decided to leave. And now you want them to come back?

If you can't be bothered to engage with their original posts then why are you asking them to come back?

I think you're quite right that they got a blunt and disingenous kicking, and it's the reason why the Brixton boards are dying, but I'd not blame Gramsci for that; he rarely shouts people down and generally does engage.

 

[Gramsci]

Yes, and you can infer anything you like from that can't you?

• We don't want poor people who can't spend money on cocktails
• We don't want coked up wankers
• Etc

If I was running a company who wanted a membership bar I would not put offensive stuff like that on my website. This is a business providing a paid for service. Maybe thats not the world I live in but if I was selling a service I would treat potential customers with more respect.

 

[discobastard]

What I object to as that some posters dont see it for what it is.

Capitalism is capitalism. Its creates and entrenches an unequal society. This isn't cynicism. Its objective view of how society works.

If Squires really wanted to be community orientated they could drop membership to go on the balcony.

the

I think people do see it for what it is. Most people in Brixton would never think of joining a private members' club. I certainly don't have any interest. And the vast majority won't even know it exists.

Capitalism is so entrenched that picking on individual businesses is a waste of time. It seems like the only businesses that are acceptable are those that are entirely neutral, don't make any profit and provide everything for everybody. That's crazy thinking.

 

[discobastard]

I asked clear and direct question. He/ she didn't answer it. What are you going on about? I think you should calm down.

I'm quite calm thank you. And there's no offence or personal issues involved. I think the absent poster was very balanced and upfront about their beliefs.

 

[discobastard]

Have you any proof of this? The poster only joined a few days back. Not even lurking here as member. Unless I see someone posting here on regular basis for at least several months I don't assume everything they say about themselves is correct.

I looked up his/ her profile and got wary.

They put up very intelligent and well argued initial posts (yes, the initial post was provocative but that is in line with many other posts here). They made it very clear which local community activities they are involved in. And also made it clear that they would have preferred it if the space had been given over to social housing. They described very accurately the response they received to all of this.

To clarify, I have no idea who that poster is, but they seemed very genuine and well-considered to me (whether you agree with what they said or not). But you all kicked the shit out of them without addressing any of the points raised.

Poor show.

 

[discobastard]

I think you're quite right that they got a blunt and disingenuous kicking, and it's the reason why the Brixton boards are dying, but I'd not blame Gramsci for that; he rarely shouts people down and generally does engage.

I think Gramsci is a very thoughtful and intelligent poster. I have total respect for him (we actually met a couple of years ago). And there are clearly areas in which we disagree, but that is what this space is for.

 

[Gramsci]

View attachment 147550

Well I had a look at Soho House membership application. And they come out with same kind of stuff.

Membership | Soho House 76 Dean Street

You also have to have two existing members propose you as members. Soho House in Dean Street doesn't come cheap.

So looks like Squires Upstairs private membership is modelling itself on the Soho House model.

Not a world I live in. I wonder how Upstairs will vet applications?

 

[discobastard]

If I was running a company who wanted a membership bar I would not put offensive stuff like that on my website. This is a business providing a paid for service. Maybe thats not the world I live in but if I was selling a service I would treat potential customers with more respect.

That doesn't make sense - I was 'exaggerating for comic effect' and not directing that at you.

 

[Gramsci]

They put up very intelligent and well argued initial posts (yes, the initial post was provocative but that is in line with many other posts here). They made it very clear which local community activities they are involved in. And also made it clear that they would have preferred it if the space had been given over to social housing. They described very accurately the response they received to all of this.

To clarify, I have no idea who that poster is, but they seemed very genuine and well-considered to me (whether you agree with what they said or not). But you all kicked the shit out of them without addressing any of the points raised.

Poor show.

Sorry who is " you all"?

I post my opinions here.

And I have addressed his/ her posts.

 

[discobastard]

Well I had a look at Soho House membership application. And they come out with same kind of stuff.

Membership | Soho House 76 Dean Street

You also have to have two existing members propose you as members. Soho House in Dean Street doesn't come cheap.

So looks like Squires Upstairs private membership is modelling itself on the Soho House model.

Not a world I live in. I wonder how Upstairs will vet applications?

Not a world I live in either (though I have friends that live in that world). Who cares? Does it matter?

 

[Gramsci]

That doesn't make sense - I was 'exaggerating for comic effect' and not directing that at you.

I don't follow what you mean in this post.

 

[discobastard]

Sorry who is " you all"?

I post my opinions here.

And I have addressed his/ her posts.

Apologies - 'some of you' - you have been very respectful.

 

[Gramsci]

Not a world I live in either (though I have friends that live in that world). Who cares? Does it matter?

So why are you posting about it ?

 

[3Zeros]

They put up very intelligent and well argued initial posts (yes, the initial post was provocative but that is in line with many other posts here). They made it very clear which local community activities they are involved in. And also made it clear that they would have preferred it if the space had been given over to social housing. They described very accurately the response they received to all of this.

To clarify, I have no idea who that poster is, but they seemed very genuine and well-considered to me (whether you agree with what they said or not). But you all kicked the shit out of them without addressing any of the points raised.

Poor show.

Or what actually happened:

They joined the forum specifically to post on this topic. They started their first post with that slightly ridiculous all caps "statement", wrote hundreds of words in defence of S&P, tried to call out Editor on the number of posts he had made since the inception of U75 and within a few posts suggested the only way to resolve the "argument" was to meet in person?

Then when I calmly pointed out the reasons people might be taking issue with Upstairs they replied they were out of here.

 

[discobastard]

I don't follow what you mean in this post.

Can you explain what you find offensive about this, then I can answer you:

 

[discobastard]

So why are you posting about it ?

That's a strange question to ask. Because I have experience of both sides and live in the area. Is that acceptable?

 

[Winot]

“Please provide information which demonstrates your ability to make a positive contribution to the Urban75 community. We are looking for a broad and varied membership database and wish to fill our space with people who will respect other members, our venue and our staff”

 

[discobastard]

Or what actually happened:

They joined the forum specifically to post on this topic. They started their first post with that slightly ridiculous all caps "statement", wrote hundreds of words in defence of S&P, tried to call out Editor on the number of posts he had made since the inception of U75 and within a few posts suggested the only way to resolve the "argument" was to meet in person?

Then when I calmly pointed out the reasons people might be taking issue with Upstairs they replied they were out of here.

That's certainly one way to interpret the situation. And I think they quite clearly put forward their issues and how they might prefer it if S&P were not there. Their subsequent posts were intelligent and well considered. The issue regards editor seemed quite objective and at no point were any *real* insults bandied about. Fair shout for somebody that is new.

Not sure why there is any issue taken with an opportunity to meet up. This is supposed to be a 'community' forum after all. And communities have all sorts of members don't they? Unless of course they're unilaterally deemed to be 'off message' or 'right wing'.

And I think (and you know) that their decision to disappear was not simply based on your post (don't flatter yourself), but the usual shutdown that's delivered to those that want to put forward a more balanced point of view.