klang
klang
whatwilldid's first ever sentence:
makes me questions how genuine their demands for a reasonable debate were.
Upstairs At The Department Store (restaurant)
- Thread starter ringo
- Start date
Mr Retro
Beware hedgehogs
For me the question is does the existence of Upstairs at Squire and Partners as private members club actually make life in Brixton worse for those who can’t afford to pay the membership fee?
I don’t really know the answer to that question. My instinct is it does not. So while I doubt I would join if I still lived in Brixton right now I have no problem with it’s exisrence in and of itself.
editor
hiraethified
So you don't think that the impact and the allure of a private club will have no knock on effect in terms of gentrifying the area? OK. I disagree completely and would suggest the impact of such exclusive and elitist bars has a definite knock-on effect, as well as a detrimental social aspect to those who suddenly find themselves being priced put of some parts of their own town.
editor
hiraethified
Exactly. He started being controversial so he can hardly complain about the subsequent debate following his tone.
Mr Retro
Beware hedgehogs
No that’s not what I said. Try reading what I did say again.
editor
hiraethified
You said that your 'instinct' is that it wouldn't make life worse for those who can't afford the membership fee. I think it does, via the knock on effect I've described.
Mr Retro
Beware hedgehogs
Yes I did say that. What I did not say, but you attributed to me was that it will have “no knock on effect in terms of gentrifying the area?”
That’s a different topic
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
teuchter
je suis teuchter
How, in your scenario, is it determined which buildings in Brixton get appropriated for 'community space'? Will there be a poll on urban75? I think you'd need to give a bit more detail on what you're proposing before anyone could give a meaningful answer to a question like that.
Is there anyone who isn’t?
I mean, obvs, there are a few people who aren’t.
But id guess 98% of people are.
(?)
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Its a straightforward question to remarks the poster made about it preferably being community space.
I will leave the poster to answer the question.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
It's not a straightforward question at all!
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
We are just going to have to disagree.
I would like whatwilldid respond. He has had a lot to say here. So could respond to the question.
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
Think you might be disappointed Gramsci because it looks like whatwilldid was do the off.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I thought that. Didn't really want to debate imo. Only joined couple days ago to have a go. Mostly at Ed.
I'm not even clear if whatwilldid is genuine poster.
I could be proved wrong. Will have to see.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
whatwilldid does remind me of mjd
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
Worth keeping in mind that at the end of the day no private business is expected to offer access to the public to their offices or facilities. If S&P had quietly moved in and not offered the public access to their building nobody would have bat an eyelid.
As others have said here, this has been a PR exercise, and might well be regarded as a cynical one. But that really is as serious a crime as S&P might have committed since their arrival. Not exactly front page material.
As others have said here, this has been a PR exercise, and might well be regarded as a cynical one. But that really is as serious a crime as S&P might have committed since their arrival. Not exactly front page material.
Last edited:
Mr Bim of Bar
Well-Known Member
Mr Bim of Bar
Well-Known Member
They are also looking for THE RIGHT TYPE OF CLIENTELE
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
Not sure I get your point within the context of this discussion tbh. I am no fan of private member clubs but membership vetting is a commonplace procedure amongst them. Unless their admission policies are based on race, gender or social class or anything else unacceptable or discriminatory towards local residents, which nothing in that statement suggests it is so.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
And also worth remembering that this was not an established venue that had been previously enjoyed by the local community. It is a leisure space within a private firm’s HQ that’s been open for barely a year that offered restricted access to a limited numtof non- employees. No pee-existing community asset has been taken away from the public. And no flaunting or rubbing on people’s faces has taken place. Indeed, the overwhelming majority of locals who don’t check this forum or BB would barely be aware of the upstairs place, let alone come across their membership requirements.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Im not saying it is a serious crime.
What "some posters" get wrong here is that someone like me just sees things as black and white issues. Sees them through ideological lens.
I've said previously they are behaving like any Capitalist business. That is how life is.
Its no surprise to me an architectural practice for high profile up market projects in central London presents themselves as community oriented for PR purposes. That is also how capitalism operates. Hardly imo controversial to say that imo. Though it is here.
What I object to as that some posters dont see it for what it is.
Capitalism is capitalism. Its creates and entrenches an unequal society. This isn't cynicism. Its objective view of how society works.
Im not blaming Squires for this. In the bigger scheme of this they are just the lackeys.
I just would like it if posters here see Squires for what they are. A family run firm who have done well out of gentrification of central London. Lackeys.
If Squires really wanted to be community orientated they could drop membership to go on the balcony.
Last edited:
Or start a steak night
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
I actually agree with much of what you say, and I don’t think anyone here thinks the sun shines out of S&P’s arse. But they’re not the pantomime villains they are sometimes painted as (not by you), and but a very small cog in the machine driving inequality or gentrification, and no worse than countless other businesses in Brixton and elsewhere.
The bar membership issue looks to me as the latest stick to best them with, and the issue is being blown out of proportion in here IMO.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
The problem with being critical of capitalism is that its at root anarchic. There is no leader to blame. So people are small cogs or big ones. Squires imo are biggish ones and like it. That is how they see themselves.
My problem with Squires/ Department store is that they are big bucks architecture firm that has done well out of "regeneration" of London. Then come to Brixton. Fair enough. All business need HQ.
They wasnt good enough for them. Squires made a big deal out of it. I've posted my personal experience of it. So I'm not being prejudiced here. And contrasted that with the reality down the line.
I don't think I am being unfair.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Are they being serious? I read this and it beggars belief. One has to pay a lot to be member and they put this on application?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Ive just been on there website and ur right this is what it says.
Its actually imo offensive to ask for all this money and then make one apply in grovelling manner.
This really is elitist.
So Squires himself will be looking at applications I wonder. To make sure right kind of clientele join.
The application form gives me impression they could turn one down if they felt like it.
So its not even free market. You have the money and you get in.
Last edited:
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I have heard people on Loughborough Junction Council estates complaining. People do hear of these things. Surprising number of locals read Brixton Buzz for example. They mention it to me. Brixton buzz gets a lot of traffic.
Last edited:
discobastard
Well-Known Member
That is utterly ridiculous and wildly disingenuous. You clearly haven't read the poster's argument.
Any excuse *not* to have a debate.
Similar threads
