Karac
Mae Hen Wlad Fy Mamau
This is incorrect-a tiny demo by a few Al-Moo types stokes up fake tabloid outrage and far right activists and football hooligans seize the time with a series of deliberately provocative marches.
Unite against Fascism (UAF) has failed (?)
- Thread starter sihhi
- Start date
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
Saw them not too long back. All in all, preferred The Three Johns.
Where they playing?
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
Corbyn's not a Government Minister, but a Labour back bencher.
You on the other hand are a half-wit - probably.
Might be too late anyway.
Give us a ring over the weekend.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Which bit of "End the marches" have I misinterpreted? That's a totalisation. Poor VP, looking after other ultra left idiots now. Is that all you have got?
The Black Hand
Unclean
Who is talking about anarchists?
Nobody has to call for a Labour vote either, that will already happen.
We seriously have to get beyond labels and stereotypical debate, rather the political future needs to be made afresh, we cannot make history just as we please but a future made in conditions transmitted and inherited from the past.
At the minute we are in a process of transition and in a defensive position too, with all the possibilities and practicalities that this necessarily entails. Now is NOT the time for ultra left posturing, but a place to be sensitive to human behaviour and political decision making 'warts and all'. We should not just be using ultra left rhetoric when those choices are not realistically available to the overwhelming majority of people.
JimW
支那暗杀团
Good doctor, heal thyself.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
One_Stop_Shop
Well-Known Member
VP I agree with a lot of what you have said. But the fact remains that the BNP, on whatever measure you want to give, have gone from strength to strength. The pro-working class alternatives, including what butchers has outlined have been isolated and very small scale, and totally failed to provide a pro-working class alternative to the BNP where they are building.
So we all know the UAF has failed, but so have the alternatives that people are outlining here. So while people go on and on about the UAF failing, which is fair enough, they don't seem to apply this to their alternatives.
So we all know the UAF has failed, but so have the alternatives that people are outlining here. So while people go on and on about the UAF failing, which is fair enough, they don't seem to apply this to their alternatives.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Jim, there is a political continuum/scale. At one end are the ultra left, it is silly to deny that. If positions are ultra left then it should be pointed out.
I have and am consciously NOT ultra left, quite deliberately, and thus have nothing to heal. Open politics should be genuinely open minded rather than stereotypical, it shouldn't be on the basis of 'starting again' - that is ultra left and there is no way around that.
I was talking about genuinely opening up politics and being sensitive to decisions people make well beyond the handful of areas the ultra left organises in. It shouldn't be ultra left or 'you are part of the state, state conspiracy'.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Orly. Wheres the yawn smilie when you need one.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
BA said
"End the marches
Stop the marches, labeling, shouting, and so on. Decamping into an area that you do not know and have no continuing interest in and shouting what’s right for that area is alienating and counter-productive. People do not like being told what’s best for them and will kick back against or simply ignore this sort of activity."
Now, that says pretty clearly to me that he's talking about the habit of certain Trot-related folks of "parachuting" into areas, full of "sound and fury, signifying nothing", and then fucking off again.
Your reply addressed his post thus:
"Amazing. Thousands of years of protest have all been wrong! FFS The culture of protest is and has been dying for a long time and now you want to kill it? There are no outsiders in the working class."
Perhaps I'm overly cynical, but to me that reads exactly as if you're taking his post as meaning "stop all marches" etc etc.
No, if you actually know what the word means, you'd know it isn't, Poindexter.
Poor Trevor, embarrassing himself on yet another forum with his egotistical whimsy-as-praxis.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I've tried pointing out that little flaw to his rhetoric before, but he doesn't seem to "get it".
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Well, my point is that it's devilishly difficult for alternatives on a national scale to emerge when there are vanguardists ready and waiting to jump on (and take over) any "bandwagon" that looks like selling a few papers for them. Back when I was a lad it was easier (although we still had some problems with the SWP wanting to run everything, and not wanting anything to do with physical direct action) because people tended to be a little bit more politicised in the 70s, but conversely were often more willing to let ideology slide in favour of getting stuff done.
The Black Hand
Unclean
BA said
"End the marches
Stop the marches, labeling, shouting, and so on. Decamping into an area that you do not know and have no continuing interest in and shouting what’s right for that area is alienating and counter-productive. People do not like being told what’s best for them and will kick back against or simply ignore this sort of activity."
Now, that says pretty clearly to me that he's talking about the habit of certain Trot-related folks of "parachuting" into areas, full of "sound and fury, signifying nothing", and then fucking off again.
Your reply addressed his post thus:
"Amazing. Thousands of years of protest have all been wrong! FFS The culture of protest is and has been dying for a long time and now you want to kill it? There are no outsiders in the working class."
Perhaps I'm overly cynical, but to me that reads exactly as if you're taking his post as meaning "stop all marches" etc etc.
No, if you actually know what the word means, you'd know it isn't, Poindexter.
Poor Trevor, embarrassing himself on yet another forum with his egotistical whimsy-as-praxis.
Anyway reactionary, drop the name calling Timothy nice but dim (or whatever your name is this week).
Totalisation - in the sense that there was no room for manouvre, it totally meant 1 thing. OK, perhaps I should have said essentialism perhaps, that was an 'absolutism' or something? ANYWAY, the facts are that you are nitpicking over words and that shows the flaws in YOUR politics not mine. The point stands - 'End the marches' means 'End the marches' and that is the wrong way to go...
The Black Hand
Unclean
You lot are doing nothing, not even trying something new. ALl you have is old dead end ultra leftism. FAIL. FAIL FAIL. Over 15 years of FAIL so far, how much more?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
In the PR review of the Bolton UAF debacle Bill Jeffreys tries to argue that the EDL are some form of state sponsored fascism created by the ruling class to fight workers militancy against the recession!
I think he might be reading a bit too much into things.
http://www.permanentrevolution.net/entry/3004#comments
I think he might be reading a bit too much into things.
http://www.permanentrevolution.net/entry/3004#comments
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
He's given up on the economic modeling has he?
Dose of the Corporal Jones there i think.
edit: yes, very defintely - a handful of edl attempting to talk at a public meeting in Bristol has now turned into an attack by the Racial Volunteer Force, and so has the mysteripus EDL attack on pub/refugee centre in Mancs. Don't Panic! Don't Panic!
Dose of the Corporal Jones there i think.
edit: yes, very defintely - a handful of edl attempting to talk at a public meeting in Bristol has now turned into an attack by the Racial Volunteer Force, and so has the mysteripus EDL attack on pub/refugee centre in Mancs. Don't Panic! Don't Panic!
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
From long boom to fascism. Its started with the park keeper chasing them in cheadlehighstreet and ended in them being banned from the Spar shop
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
Read this on the EDL home page:
So some credence to what has been said by Jeffreys
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
My name is the same as it's been for 7 years on Urban, unlike you.
That "one thing" not falling within the usual field of the word.
It doesn't do anything of the sort.
Your claim that it does is, however, of a piece with your usual whiney bollocks.
So, in other words, your point only stands if one accepts that the attica-defined meaning is the only one.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
What, until the light is seen and everyone acknowledges that the attica way is best? That's never going to happen.
And "fail"? That depends on how you measure failure. Just because some people don't write up their own actions (and those of others, natch) in academese, publish them and then claim the act as a form of praxis doesn't mean they've failed, it just means they're not careerist.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
One_Stop_Shop
Well-Known Member
So 5 pages on it's been established, yet again, that the UAF is shit and that not a lot can be done about it and no alternative is likely to come about.
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
Similar threads
