Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Ukraine

460x.jpg
 
Eastern-Odyssey said:
This guy. There is a short article on it here http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2014/02/20/7015041/. Like many things related to Maiden it seems to have been white washed.

200px-Serhiy_Pashynskyi.jpg
Click to expand...

Sergey Pashinsky was a Yulia's party person in the Supreme Soviet of 2007-12 (all elected by PR: no constituency peeps).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_parliament_of_Ukraine,_2007–12

He is so unimportant, most of the time, he lacks a wiki entry in any language.

Has he remained in that party, Fatherland?

ADDED: thanx to E-O, he has RU & UA entries. Still seems to be in Fatherland, & W5Mar was appointed to the Prez's admin office. Wonder if he takes his gun to work?
http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Сергій_Пашинський
 
Last edited:
RosyFuture said:
got a link, JR - CR?
Evidence? Link? Audio clip & transcript of the hacked calls?
Click to expand...
Casually Red said:
On previous page.
Click to expand...
Your answer referred to the first of my two requests.

So, concerning my second request, do you have any evidence for your assertion that "actually it was US ambassador Nuland who appointed both of them [presumably you mean the Kyiv Prez & PM] first, weeks before Yanukovich fled"?

Granted, the US, like the UK, France, & whoever, may have had a preference, but "appointed"? (Although you mean a scare-quotes 'appointed', as in 'quasi-appointed'.) The world is not always puppet theatre.
 
Casually Red said:
no i never said that . Olgas denial only came after the western media contacted her as regards the leaked phonecall, which identified her and what shed said to the Estonian minister .
Click to expand...
So why did you say the denial "prompted him to phone ashton"? - as the below (#2907, p.97) shows:
Casually Red said:
she has denied to the western media what the Estonian Foreign Minister claims he told her . Which prompted him to phone ashton .
Click to expand...

It's ok, we're all human - even you - we all mix things up sometimes. (You also meant to say, 'claims she told him'.)
 
Last edited:
A statement from Ukrainian anarchists and left communists on the borotba group briefly discussed earlier:

”Borotba” has proved itself an organization with a non-transparent funding mechanism and unscrupulous principles of cooperation. It uses hired workers, who are not even the members of the organization. The local cells of “Borotba” took part in the protest actions together with PSPU (Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine, which is an anti-Semitic, racist, and clerical party, and has no relation to the world socialist movement) and with Kharkiv pro-government, anti-Semitic and homophobic group “Oplot”; and are known for their linkage with an infamous journalist O.Chalenko, who openly stands for Russian chauvinism.
Click to expand...

On January 24th, the region council deputy and “Borotba” representative Oleksiy Albu participated in the protection of Odesa region administration building against “Nazis”, accompanied by Russian Cossacks and nationalists (“Slavic Unity”) and the members of ruling Party of Regions and Communist Party. In his later interview, he admitted his cooperation with the Security Service of Ukraine.
On March 1st, “Borotba” activists together with pro-Putin organizations took part in the assault on Kharkiv region state administration, which resulted in raising of a Russian flag and severe beating of many Kharkiv Maidan activists, including a leftist poet Serhiy Zhadan. The members of “Borotba” call all of this “an antifascist action” and claim that these violent actions were aimed against radical rightists.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
A lot of ex Tory MPs on BBC tonight sympathising with Russian imperialism. Funnily enough, the mob who were around for the Falklands War. All imperialists together.
 
Eastern-Odyssey said:
Well his wiki entry in Ukrainian and Russian is quite extensive for a member of the Rada.
Click to expand...
Ok, I thought when wiki text is in red, like the 2007-12 People's Deputies one, it means 'no entry in this language but might be a good idea'. I suppose it might mean 'see entry in other languages'!
 
butchersapron said:
Sure, posted it yesterday as well but was buried under CR's oh so confident bluster that not only did she and the estonian FM both say this was the case but that they were basing it on detailed british forensics experts investigation - a claim pulled entirely out of the air - but, as normal confidently stated so as not to receive any challenge:

Our correspondent, Damien McElroy, has spoken to the doctor at the centre of the claims that snipers that shot people in Kiev were hired by Maidan leaders:

Olga Bogomolets said she had not told Mr Paet that policemen and protesters had been killed in the same manner.

"Myself I saw only protesters. I do not know the type of wounds suffered by military people," she told The Telegraph. "I have no access to those people."
But she said she had asked for a full forensic criminal investigation into the deaths that occurred in the Maidan. "No one who just sees the wounds when treating the victims can make a determination about the type of weapons. I hope international experts and Ukrainian investigators will make a determination of what type of weapons, who was involved in the killings and how it was done. I have no data to prove anything.

"I was a doctor helping to save people on the square. There were 15 people killed on the first day by snipers. They were shot directly to the heart, brain and arteries. There were more than 40 the next day, 12 of them died in my arms.

"Our nation has to ask the question who were the killers, who asked them to come to Ukraine. We need good answers on the basis of expertise."
Mr Paet's assertion that an opposition figure was behind the Maidan massacre was not one she could share.

"I think you can only say something like this on the basis of fact," she said. "Its not correct and its not good to do this. It should be based on fact."

She said the new government in Kiev had assured her a criminal investigation had begun but that she had not direct contact with it so far.
"They told me they have begun a criminal process and if they say that I believe them. The police have not given me any information on it."
Click to expand...
This was from the Telegraph's journo, on their blog, 1517 GMT, Wednesday, & after I asked I thank brogdale for bringing it to my attention (& to the apron for the link).

("12 of them died in my arms", so she was in Maidan - not, as I had speculated, making $$$$$ in her cosmetic clinic.)

So the Q remains: why did the Estonian Foreign Minister, Paet, say what he did? His English seems fine, Dr Olga B did some skin training in Philly, & ever since Pennsylvania lost its campaign to make German the national language the teaching medium for most things has been English. So a linguistic misunderstanding is unlikely.

So how to explain what Paet reported? As I had indicated, Olga B lacked the expertise & experience to make the determination attributed to her by Paet. And Paet wasn't that coherent, saying, "And then she also showed me some photos, she said that as medical doctor, she can, you know, say that it is the same . . . same handwriting, the same type of bullets".

It's unlikely Paet is suffering delusions; Olga B isn't competent to offer an informed opinion, even were she to have seen the shot gov 'soldiers'; so what can it be other than Olga B backtracking on the wild claim she had made to Paet?

Transcript of hacked call:
RosyFuture said:
Here's the (folksy) doc in Q:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olga_Bogomolets

Her expertise is skin &, by extension (substantively, not figuratively), cosmetic surgery. She is neither an emergency physician nor a pathologist. Nor is she a forensic weapons examiner, nor a handwriting expert. No-one has said she was either in Maidan or assisting the qualified pathologist in the morgue. More likely she was working her way thru a theatre list to keep the $$$$$ rolling in.

All this should be borne in mind when considering the truth-content of what seems to be a consensus between said plastic surgeon, the Estonian Foreign Minister, Paet, & an experienced administrator, Ashton:
1) same snipers (presumably means same team, not that a particular sniper necessarily murdered peeps from both sides);
2) same type of bullet (calibre?, batch?); &
3) same handwriting (on what? Other than death certificate what could this be?).

My transcript of The Gosh Moment (Paet, then the ex-chair of an NHS health authority):

"And in fact then what was quite disturbing the same Olga told that well [i.e. convincingly] all the evidence shows that people who were killed by snipers, from both sides, among policemen & people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides."

"Well that's . . . yer . . . that's [general indistinctness from our Lady of Upholland, the EU High Representative]"

"And then she also showed me some photos, she said that as medical doctor, she can, you know, say that it is the same . . . same handwriting, the same type of bullets, & it's really disturbing that now the new . . . ah, new coalition that they don't want to investigate what exactly happened. So that there is now stronger & stronger understanding that behind snipers they . . . it was not Seeanikovich [sic] but it was somebody from the new coalition."

"I think we [EU?] do want to investigate. I mean I suppose - didn't pick that up - that's interesting - gosh."

"Yeah, so that it was in [indistinct] disturbing that if it starts now to live its own life very powerfully it already discreditates [sic] from very beginning this new coalition."

(from 8:21 to 9:24; my emphases)

I may not be alone in being struck by Ashton's reaction to the two pieces of news: one set of snipers, & the new gov not wanting an inquiry. Her indifference was chilling, preferring to respond by emphasising, in effect, that a mere doctor & activist needs to get all real & start to effin' well act like a politician. Glad to see it's an easy transition from the new NHS ethics to those of promoting the national interest in the shark-infested oceans of foreign affairs.

But there's another possibility explaining this apparent indifference. Given that she knows this Olga I surmise this was not news to her at all. And thru repeatedly talking about it with countless others, when the perhaps Etonian Estonian raised it with her it was a case of oh-not-that-old-news-again-&-from-someone-else-who-thinks-they're-relating-a-scoop-Jesu.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Casually Red said:
yes I saw what she said to the western media . Its markedly different to what she told the Estonian FM, presumably in confidence not remotely thinking a week later shed be all over the media thanks to a bugged phone in Estonia.

As for Blackwater Im unsure whether that was their guys with the sniper rifle with silencer in Pashinskys car . But im pretty sure they were shooting people with it in Maidan whoever was paying their wages.
Click to expand...
JR - sorry, CR - I think we'll all chip in & let you spend the weekend here at our expense:

1000px-Bluewater_Shopping_Centre%2C_Kent%2C_England_Crop_-_April_2009.jpg

A panoramic view of Bluewater Shopping Centre at dusk - you can just make out CR entering the cornucopia after a hard day at the keyboard on the urban 'Ukraine' thread

CR, you need to chill out a lil, clear your head.
 
Last edited:
butchersapron said:
A statement from Ukrainian anarchists and left communists on the borotba group briefly discussed earlier:
http://www.anarkismo.net/article/26817
Click to expand...
Well, wonder if Kagarlitsky will now rule them out of court - although none of this can be news to him?

And I look forward to the next street protest, perhaps in Lviv, by one of the signatories to the anti-Borotba open letter:
Anarcha-feminist collective Good Night Macho Pride.
 
Well I never! . . . am I alone in not realising that Sevastopol isn't part of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea (ARC)? Like Kyiv it has a city status, & in the UA admin structure they are placed alongside the ARC & the many oblasts.

Learnt that from the Guardian's dayblog (a nicely coloured tweeted map):

Bh_epA9IMAAtdVT.png


Is the only UA territory leased to Russia until 2042 the whole of the above grey area bottom-left? (The grey top-right is part of Kherson Oblast.) (Is the 5yr option, to 2047, subject to mutual agreement, or is an extension Russia's prerogative? You never know, it might arise.)

Guardian reports the City Soviet decided Thursday to have a referendum the same day as the ARC, a week Sunday, 16Mar. The Guardian somewhat ropily translates the Seva Qs as:

“'The city of Sevastopol decides to join the Russian Federation'”; &
“'Deputies of the Sevastopol city council accepted the decision the city’s entry to Russia and its participation in the general Crimean referendum on 16 March.'”

“'1) Вы за воссоединение Крыма с Россией на правах субъекта Российской Федерации?'
'2) Вы за восстановление действия Конституции Республики Крым 1992 года и за статус Крыма как части Украины?' на основании положения о референдуме.”
http://sevastopolis.com/news/6049.html

Interesting: the residents can vote but it isn't their territory (likewise with residents of the ARC) to pass it on to someone else: it's leased land, the freeholder being a state, UA.

The City Soviet site has an austere pic of Yulia, not the sort that is used in 'the West':

1804153.jpg


ADDED: the Ukrainian Navy HQ is in the city:

"The ex-Soviet Black Sea Fleet and its facilities were divided between Russia's Black Sea Fleet and the Ukrainian Naval Forces. The two navies now co-use some of the city's harbours and piers, while others were demilitarised or used by either country. Sevastopol remains the location of the Russian Black Sea Fleet headquarters with the Ukrainian Naval Forces Headquarters also based in the city".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevastopol#Russian_naval_base_and_ownership_dispute (no reference)

"Main base of the Navy is Sebastopol".
http://www.mil.gov.ua/index.php?lang=en&part=structure&sub=navy

So if the city votes to join Russia . . . ?
 
Last edited:
Casually Red said:
Without the price discount their industries cant even operate within that Russian sphere. Forget about somehow ever competing within the EU...like seriously forget about it.
Theyll end up dismantling them and selling them to the chinese for scrap in order to pay back the IMF.
Click to expand...

:D

I think the EU could just about bring themselves to accept this outcome.
 
for anyone who's still interested in playing spot the Russian amongst all the err... self defence auxillaries in the Crimea, someone on twitter (who's obviously never touched a woman in his life..), has matched up the few number plates in evidence to several Russian units - 76th Guards Airborne Division and 22nd Guards Spetznaz Brigade, both of the Southern Military District. he used photo's from Crimea and cross-referenced them with photos taken of Russian units on exercise in the last few years.

someone else noticed that many of the other self defence auxillaries seemed to have taken on the custom of Russian Naval Infantry of wearing a blue and white striped t-shirt under their combats.. honestly, some of the coincidences you see in life. :thumbs:
 
Here's the Borotba response to the statement i linked to above:

As for the recent events in Kharkiv (March 1, 2014) we should highlight the following facts. There was a mass rally of different forces opposing Euromaidan. People decided to free the building of Kharkiv Regional State Administration earlier seized by Euromaidan supporters. After negotiations most Euromaidan supporters agreed to leave the building. Some militants (mostly from the Right Sector but some liberals too) rejected to obey the decision of Euromaidan majority and decided to stay in. Activists of ‘Borotba’ participated in the mass rally near the building carrying on agitation of internationalist and anti-fascist stance (and were criticized for that by some pro-Russian citizens). The mass rally rushed to storm the seized building after somebody has thrown into the crowd the flash-bang grenade. A crowd burst into building and captured some of the militants from Right Sector and a group of liberals that stayed with them (including poet Serhiy Zhadan). Then followed attempts of lynching made by excited crowd. Activists of ‘Borotba’ tried to stop by all possible means the lynching of captured Euromaidan supporters. So, the accusation of ‘Borotba’ is not only irrelevant but looks like a sheer hypocrisy from those who tried to ignore the practice of lynching dissenters regularly made by far-right Euromaidan supporters in Kiev and other cities. All the accusations of ‘Borotba’ union are sheer slander of some pro-nationalists groups or individuals
Click to expand...

Now, to my ears, that doesn't quite link up with their own earlier breathless retelling of what happened.
 
Last edited:
kebabking said:
for anyone who's still interested in playing spot the Russian amongst all the err... self defence auxillaries in the Crimea, someone on twitter (who's obviously never touched a woman in his life..), has matched up the few number plates in evidence to several Russian units - 76th Guards Airborne Division and 22nd Guards Spetznaz Brigade, both of the Southern Military District. he used photo's from Crimea and cross-referenced them with photos taken of Russian units on exercise in the last few years.

someone else noticed that many of the other self defence auxillaries seemed to have taken on the custom of Russian Naval Infantry of wearing a blue and white striped t-shirt under their combats.. honestly, some of the coincidences you see in life. :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Think about it, if Russian troops are not actualy in Crimea, they can easily be withdrawn at any time (not being there in the first place).
 
New Kagarlitsky translation i think - from a few days back:

Why, do you suppose, war has not yet broken out between Russia and Ukraine? The answer is very simple: no one plans to go to war, and no one can. Kiev for practical purposes does not have an army, while the government that has appeared in Kiev has no control over half of Ukraine, and cannot even exercise particular control over its own supporters. If the Ukrainian authorities make any serious attempt to mobilise their forces, this will merely provoke new protests. Even rumours of such a possibility have been enough to provoke anti-government demonstrations in Odessa.

Moscow, meanwhile, is rattling its sabres, but very cautiously. If the Kremlin were really serious about sending troops onto Ukrainian territory, it would not have asked permission from the Council of the Federation, but would simply have issued the order. Instead of real action we saw PR action, with a “unanimous vote by the senators”. A war broke out in the virtual space of the internet, backed by hysterical commentaries from liberals and malevolent howls from conservative propagandists. In essence, this was enough to fulfil the tasks faced by the authorities at present.
Click to expand...

Gosh, imagine someone from the left saying something like this:

When a certain number of leftists, repeating century-old slogans, speak of “a war unleashed in the interests of large-scale capital”, they once again get things wrong. Instead of repeating clichés from old text books, what is needed is a little economic analysis. The truth is that large-scale capital, both private and bureaucratic, has no need at present for a war.
Click to expand...
 
camouflage said:
Think about it, if Russian troops are not actualy in Crimea, they can easily be withdrawn at any time (not being there in the first place).
Click to expand...

true, but it also means that some half-wit might think 'well, if Putin says they aren't Russian troops, then we can shoot them..'.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
Is Zelensky no longer convenient both inside and outside Ukraine? [Bot spam]
2
Replies
43
Views
3K
existentialist
existentialist
editor
New Ukraine forum
Replies
0
Views
560
editor
editor
Pickman's model
Ukraine after the war
2 3
Replies
62
Views
6K
phildwyer
phildwyer
YouSir
Global Fallout from the Ukraine War
Replies
23
Views
2K
not-bono-ever
not-bono-ever
MrCurry
After Ukraine, what’s next?
2 3
Replies
76
Views
5K
Dogsauce
Dogsauce
Back
Top Bottom