Ukraine

[RosyFuture]

New Kagarlitsky translation i think - from a few days back:



Gosh, imagine someone from the left saying something like this:

yes, I think it's an original transl'n - thanks.

 

[butchersapron]

Here's a longer piece from Anton Shekhovtsov on Svoboda:

From electoral success to revolutionary failure

The radical rightwing party Svoboda rose to prominence in Ukraine's 2012 parliamentary elections as an alternative to the political establishment, writes Anton Shekhovtsov, expert on Ukrainian rightwing groups. But its role in Euromaidan may well amount to Svoboda's swan song.

Not read yet (will do so shortly) but a quick skim read isn't convincing me that he's not just writing what he wants to hear and that even within this text he seems to contradict himself - compare the above with the conclusion that Svodboda may well grow as a result up an upsurge of patriotism from defeat (political, economic, military?) by Russia. Why would that not also come from a victory then?

edit: Note that he now describes euromaidan unambiguously as "pro-European, pro-democratic protests "

 

[camouflage]

true, but it also means that some half-wit might think 'well, if Putin says they aren't Russian troops, then we can shoot them..'.

They'll find themselves outgunned. Flying in Ukrainian troops might help but these mysterious 'local militia formations' hold the airbases apparently.

 

[TomUS]

I can't wait to see the movie. Who'll play Putin, Obama, Cameron, Yanuko?

 

[DownwardDog]

someone else noticed that many of the other self defence auxillaries seemed to have taken on the custom of Russian Naval Infantry of wearing a blue and white striped t-shirt under their combats.. honestly, some of the coincidences you see in life.

The Bulgarian airborne forces wear the telnyashka as well. It could always be them...

 

[Idris2002]

The Bulgarian airborne forces wear the telnyashka as well. It could always be them...

"A chicken is not a bird, and Bulgaria is not a foreign country" - Russian proverb.

 

[rekil]

Putin - Sean Pertwee
Obama - Ice Cube
Cameron - Reece Shearsmith

 

[DownwardDog]

I can't wait to see the movie. Who'll play Putin, Obama, Cameron?

Steve Buscemi, Idris Elba and Jack Whitehall.

 

[co-op]

I can't wait to see the movie. Who'll play Putin, Obama, Cameron, Yanuko?

Cameron is Patrick Stewart obvs

 

[camouflage]

Pat Buchanan wades in on the situation...

http://dissentradio.com/radio/14_03_05_buchanan.mp3

 

[kebabking]

"A chicken is not a bird, and Bulgaria is not a foreign country" - Russian proverb.

Bulgarian defence budget goes through the roof and the phone lines from Sofia to Brussels melt...

 

[J Ed]

Pat Buchanan wades in on the situation...

http://dissentradio.com/radio/14_03_05_buchanan.mp3

Why do you keep linking weirdo right-wing 'libertarians' and now a racist paleoconservative?

 

[camouflage]

Why do you keep linking weirdo right-wing 'libertarians' and now a racist paleoconservative?

Y'know, for kicks.

Seriously though, I don't agree with libertardianism but you do get some good interviews on that show (ignore the adverts, and don't use that btc service either). Scott Horton's a real Ron Paul fetishist as well, I don't usually link to his interviews in case he does it in front of people. But on the other hand there is good interviewage to be had. All in all it's Exactly the same as watching Newsnight.

In this case I thought it interesting to hear what this Cold-Warrior Paleoconservative coming out with a different take on the Ukraine situation than the All-Truth-Comes-Though-Me 'Left', which now seems on-message with Washingtons spin-tanks and NGO's.

Hungary 56! Hitler, Ming, End Times, Panick-and-Flee!

 

[goldenecitrone]

I can't wait to see the movie. Who'll play Putin, Obama, Cameron, Yanuko?

Putin - Frank Sidebottom
Obama - Zippy
Cameron - Geoffrey

 

[J Ed]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-26465465

A black and red flag, this one raised by pro-Ukraine protesters, belongs to the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA). The members were Ukrainian nationalists who fought against both sides in WW2 for an independent Ukraine - even resorting to collaborating with the German army as a tactical strategy to achieve nationalist goals. Some accuse them of murdering Jews and Poles, so in Russia this flag is regarded as fascist.

What an incredibly revisionist history, worthy of Stormfront tbh.

 

[butchersapron]

Just give us the info demands camo as he links to an irrelevant US conserative on a libertarian radio show. God forbid he'd actually read something.

 

[camouflage]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-26465465



What an incredibly revisionist history, worthy of Stormfront tbh.

What's the real history of this black and red flag?

 

[ViolentPanda]

At the moment, the major task of the Russian Bear in Crimea is crowd control. Would you use mobile artillery (as distinct from tanks) for a gig like that?

I'd have thought mobile cannon would be more of a battlefield thing. kebabking likesfish ViolentPanda enlighten us as to the arts of war in this case, please.

You wouldn't use mobile artillery for crowd control, unless your idea of crowd control embraced dropping a high explosive round in their midst and turning them all into longpork mince.

 

[camouflage]

Just give us the info demands camo as he links to an irrelevant US conserative on a libertarian radio show. God forbid he'd actually read something.

I read all over the place. I read, I listen, I watch... leftists, rightists, weirdos, trots... Your problem is you think you're the only legitimate source of information on the internet. Anyone who hasn't been reading months and months of apron links.... just doesn't know what time is it, you seem to think.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I know, I shouldn't say anything. Boys playing military 'what if?' is a time-honoured pastime. I even play it myself sometimes.

The difference being that some of us have a modicum of military experience, and may even have been "educated" by the military during a time when such weapons were prevalent.
You, on the other hand, have Google.

 

[ViolentPanda]

We still nostalgic of Soviet Union past and we wish to come back those glories well not perfect paradise of course there are some dark sides of Soviets. Ah I think western right wing government scary it may come back some kind of Socialism. I wish for that.

The only way you're going to get socialism is revolution, and you're in much the same situation now, in terms of imbalance of power and wealth, as you were in the early 20th century, so...

 

[Idris2002]

I read all over the place. I read, I listen, I watch... leftists, rightists, weirdos, trots... Your problem is you think you're the only legitimate source of information on the internet. Anyone who hasn't been reading months and months of apron links.... just doesn't know what time is it, you seem to think.

And judging by your avatar, you appear to think that African child soldiers are "cool", and "edgy".

 

[ViolentPanda]

slightly nuanced answer theoretically, but a black and white answer in this case: you can use self-propelled guns (or any Artillery) in a 'less than war' situation if you use guided ammunition (we regularly fire single round missions in Afghanistan, we've used them against snipers, mortar teams, IED laying teams etc..), but to my understanding the Russians do not use guided artillery ammunition in the calibre of weapon seen in the picture, and the guns themselves are not the most modern systems they have, so even their unguided/ballistic acccuracy would be well below that found on a modern artillery peice with GPS navigation systems and gun laying radars.

in blunt terms, no, this is not a weapon you would use in any circumstance less than WW3 - its a blunt instrument, and given the historic Soviet/Russian reliance on Artillery as a part of their battle/fire plan, its a small part of a much bigger, much blunter instrument.

E2A: as butchersapron and @guess who? have noted, they are extremely good at persuading people to fuck off.

There's a reason that infantry make "you've got a small cock" gestures at gunners, what with artillerymen having a plethora of penis substitutes.

 

[butchersapron]

btw, Lyndon Larouche ( keen eurasianist ardent loon and murder cover-upper) appeared on the the second largest Russian tv station (state owned of course) on their 9 o' clock news yesterday to give his loon views on the question. His third such appearance in the last week.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'd like to make an appeal to all the Ukrainian "nationalists" to gather in a huge mob, tool up, form a convoy of cars, trucks, whatever - stick very close together - and drive to Crimea to take it back from Russian troops! Go "nationalists"!!

They're not quite that daft, unfortunately.
The post-Soviet Ukrainian nationalism always annoys me - so many people in the last 23 years have "come out" as nationalists, but while they were under the Soviets were good little drones, standing by and doing nothing while the tiny minority of anti-Soviet nationalists who actually still strove against the boss class were ruthlessly hunted down and got rid of.
I suspect that for some of these ultra-nationalists, their nationalism is secondary to their desire to protect their assets, while for others, it's an excuse to blame their own inadequacies on others. I suuspect that the majority of them, faced with a modern-day Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army of Ukraine, would not fight for a free Ukraine, but for Russian clientism, if that protected their money from the evil anarchists.

 

[camouflage]

And judging by your avatar, you appear to think that African child soldiers are "cool", and "edgy".

Quite the opposite, a couple of inches of fate to the side and that could have been my childhood! I think it's a beautiful picture though and there is edge in it too but I'd rather this kid had a different life entirely. Kind of the point.

 

[kebabking]

There's a reason that infantry make "you've got a small cock" gestures at gunners, what with artillerymen having a plethora of penis substitutes.

magnificent weapon, mighty girth, reaching the parts etc...

i might have a small cock, but at least i've got a kettle at work!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Their is also a US missile destroyer heading into the Black Sea. It makes you wonder what price both countries are willing to pay for small stretch of land. The thing is judging by Zbigniew Brzezinski Ukraine is a zero sum game the US must win.

Not that listening to what Zbigniew B has to say is of any benefit to anyone outside the corridors of power. The man always shapes his opinions to what he believes that power wants to hear.

 

[Eastern-Odyssey]

btw, Lyndon Larouche ( keen eurasianist ardent loon and murder cover-upper) appeared on the the second largest Russian tv station (state owned of course) on their 9 o' clock news yesterday to give his loon views on the question. His third such appearance in the last week.

In all fairness it's not much different to all the Western news outlets giving a voice to John McCain, leading necon, Iraq war criminal and being director of the International Republican Institute leading figure behind the Ukraine coup.

 

[butchersapron]

In all fairness it's not much different to all the Western news outlets giving a voice to John McCain, leading necon, Iraq war criminal and being director of the International Republican Institute leading figure behind the Ukraine coup.

Yeah, it's pretty different.