Ukraine

[Johnny Canuck3]

Go ask the United states about the logic around such arrangements. .

Or your own govt.

The Army is currently deployed in over 80 countries around the world. Deployments vary in strength from single military advisors to full operational deployments. The main countries the British Army is deployed to are outlined in this area of the site.

http://www.army.mod.uk/operations-deployments/22753.aspx

 

[goldenecitrone]

Im wondering why the western media never went doolally about 25 Al Jazeera journalists resigning over its coverage of the Egypt crisis .

I seem to remember you cheerleading the overthrow of Morsi's democratically elected government. By a military junta no less.

But have been furiously wanking themselves into a lather about a single American working for a well known pro Russian channel taking a fit of patriotism against the Russian enemy .

Unlike you.

 

[brogdale]

look at the vid I posted

Have you had a chance to look at that reported Olga Bogomolets interview in which she denied seeing any evidence of wounds or fatalities amongst the security services?

Are you still claiming it was Blackwater?

 

[RosyFuture]

Why ask me why George Golloway does what George Galloway does

Turns out there was a treaty in place from way back re the 25,000 troops. I've not read it myself [. . .] It makes sense though that if there's a major arrangement for a massive naval complex in Ukranian territory, then there'd be an agreement for supporting ground-forces in the area too. Makes me wonder why Crimea is an autonomous republic in the first place actually.

I haven't read it either, but as I understand it it may allow Russian road movement between their bases, or wherever, but not to encircle anything, be it a UA base or a McDonald's when they get hungry.

Crimea wasn't autonomous under the Tsars, but has been an autonomous republic, never independent, since 1921, variously within the Russian Federative republic of the USSR, then within the Ukrainian SSR, then Ukraine (its title doesn't include talk of it being a republic). Blame the Bolsheviks for accepting the political liberal principle of self-determination & devolution of political powers.

 

[Jenny teengirl]

I don't cheer anyone at war as if it was an icehockeygame or soccergame!

Both sides are as stupid when they fight, and both sides are as good when they negotigate!

 

[classicdish]

I posted you the link of the guy who owned the offices talking about it , with other links of the people from that party being surrounded armed and masked fascists and told they were resigning. And others of political activists homes being burned, kidnapping and torture. You however seem to be demanding I post a link to the juntas ministry of interior and see what the figures are for how many offices they burned down in the last fortnight .

So that's a "no" then. No evidence. Just more of your bullshit.

 

[classicdish]

Im wondering why the western media never went doolally about 25 Al Jazeera journalists resigning over its coverage of the Egypt crisis . But have been furiously wanking themselves into a lather about a single American working for a well known pro Russian channel taking a fit of patriotism against the Russian enemy . And resigning for purely patriotic reasons in support of her militarys line and nothing else .

Liz Wahl wasn’t just disgusted by the Kremlin-funded TV network’s handling of Ukraine, she says in an exclusive interview. RT’s coverage of the entire world “made me feel sick.”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ay-anchor-liz-wahl-explains-why-she-quit.html

 

[Casually Red]

Have you had a chance to look at that reported Olga Bogomolets interview in which she denied seeing any evidence of wounds or fatalities amongst the security services?

Are you still claiming it was Blackwater?

yes I saw what she said to the western media . Its markedly different to what she told the Estonian FM, presumably in confidence not remotely thinking a week later shed be all over the media thanks to a bugged phone in Estonia.

As for Blackwater Im unsure whether that was their guys with the sniper rifle with silencer in Pashinskys car . But im pretty sure they were shooting people with it in Maidan whoever was paying their wages.

 

[RosyFuture]

RT have just broadcast footage there from the Maidan during the sniper killings of a car stopped by the crowd who are demanding it be searched. One of the coup leaders..cant remember his name..searches the car and inside theres a modern military sniper rifle, black carbon fibre type with large scope . Didnt look Russian, definitely not one of those Dragunov types. Its unzipped from a leather case . And then he puts it back in the case and the driver is simply let proceed by the politician who vouches for him . And off he drives with the sniper rifle .

fucking mad.

got a link, JR - CR?

actually it was US ambassador Nuland who appointed both of them first, weeks before Yanukovich fled

Evidence? Link? Audio clip & transcript of the hacked calls?

 

[butchersapron]

yes I saw what she said to the western media . Its markedly different to what she told the Estonian FM, presumably in confidence not remotely thinking a week later shed be all over the media thanks to a bugged phone in Estonia.

As for Blackwater Im unsure whether that was their guys with the sniper rifle with silencer in Pashinskys car . But im pretty sure they were shooting people with it in Maidan .

How do you know what she told the estonian fm?

 

[seventh bullet]

Well I don't think it's the same, I was just looking for an equal comparison, but neoconservative core ideas are about restoring the American empire and strong anti Chinese/Russian sentiment. On the other hand neo-Eurasionism is about restoring the Russian empire with a strong anti-Western sentiment. I just think when you cut out all the crap, both ideologies have the same goal, just a different means of achieving it.

That's not to say Anton Shekhovtsov is completely wrong on his accusations of the neo-Eurasianists, their is certainly fascist undertones in their ideology and this extremely aggressive foreign policy, just like the neoconservatives. Although I don't think this outright labelling of fascism is right and when you take his refusal to use the same labels for Right Sector and other fascist groups involved in the coup, it makes him look more like someone with a personal vendetta than a serious academic.

What I find interesting is the Eurasian Youth Union which Anton Shekhovtsov was a member of (being his t'shirt and website of the article) was banned in 2007 in Ukraine, when Viktor Yushchenko was president. They carried out a few acts of vandalism across the country a few hacking attacks, desecrating a Holodomor memorial and the nationalist symbol on Mount Hoverla http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Youth_Union. Clearly they didn't like the new government, or Ukrainian nationalism very much, but I would hardly call it fascism and it seems to pale in comparison with the armed military training and violence committed by the Ukrainian far right parties. Both Dugin and Zarifullin were banned from entering into Ukraine after the banning of the Eurasion Youth Union, which was probably a win for Washington on controlling what it would class as Russian propaganda. However, it would seem Eurasionism has a strong influence in Crimea and taking this cable into context: https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06KYIV4489_a.html, was probably banned less for vandalism and more for political purposes.

Here is a training video from Patriots Ukraine Youtube Channel (note the Swastika on the wall). If you were president of Ukraine who would you ban the militants training with AK47's, or a few vandal kids.

It has particular aims that are different to Neoconservatism, although both are radical in their own way. I understand what you mean in merely calling it fascist, although that label shouldn't be rejected, either (when looking at it beyond this current situation in Ukraine and Shekhovstov).

I'm aware of ESM, or at least its Russian organisation. Who is in charge of it now, for Dugin? In recent times there has been one of his leading students, Natella Speranskaya, and former fellow member of the NBP, artist Alexei Belyaev-Gintovt.

 

[Eastern-Odyssey]

right , ive got that report just slightly wrong . The opposition deputy is called Pashinsky . The car is his .The crowd stop it as hes leaving Maidan and hes none too pleased . The boot of the car is searched and the sniper rifle is in the boot of Pashinskys car . The rifle is also fitted with a silencer , its clearly visible . He refuses to answer the journalists questions and speeds out of the square . Some masked guys with him .

This guy. There is a short article on it here http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2014/02/20/7015041/. Like many things related to Maiden it seems to have been white washed.

 

[Casually Red]

Liz Wahl wasn’t just disgusted by the Kremlin-funded TV network’s handling of Ukraine, she says in an exclusive interview. RT’s coverage of the entire world “made me feel sick.”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ay-anchor-liz-wahl-explains-why-she-quit.html

she needs a new job now . Saying what the US media who you now want to employ you want you to say will do her no harm in that regard . Shes an opportunist . And to reiterate, she said definitively on air she was doing it out of loyalty to American troops, whove been injured while occupying other peoples countries.
Shes now looking to work for a channel that disseminates war propaganda on their behalf.

 

[butchersapron]

yes I saw what she said to the western media . Its markedly different to what she told the Estonian FM, presumably in confidence not remotely thinking a week later shed be all over the media thanks to a bugged phone in Estonia.

As for Blackwater Im unsure whether that was their guys with the sniper rifle with silencer in Pashinskys car . But im pretty sure they were shooting people with it in Maidan .

This is tragically funny. Look how confidently stated but evidence free this post from detective cr is. It's a rhetorical version of Putin's attempts to establish facts on the ground. Bluster and aggressievely repeat that your evidence free conclusions have been accepted and you never know, some people might end up accepting them.

 

[Casually Red]

got a link, JR - CR?


Evidence? Link? Audio clip & transcript of the hacked calls?

On previous page.

 

[Casually Red]

So that's a "no" then. No evidence. Just more of your bullshit.

my my old bean , you seem to be getting a bit shirty about all this kerfuffle . Not very gentlemanly .

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Norman Rockwell's Armchair General

A bit OT, but.... that image is a little more complicated that might be suspected. That banner in the background indicates that he's got three sons in the military. His got skin in the game.

 

[RosyFuture]

right , ive got that report just slightly wrong . The opposition deputy is called Pashinsky . The car is his .The crowd stop it as hes leaving Maidan and hes none too pleased . The boot of the car is searched and the sniper rifle is in the boot of Pashinskys car . The rifle is also fitted with a silencer , its clearly visible . He refuses to answer the journalists questions and speeds out of the square . Some masked guys with him .

Just 2 Qs, as I don't know weapons: is a silencer there?, & is the barrel long enuf for sniping, or is it unscrewable?

Channel 112 is a Ukrainian cable/satellite one (2011 figure says <1% market share).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ukrainian_language_television_channels#Satellite_and_Cable (the English wiki is the most comprehensive one)

 

[camouflage]

Or your own govt.



http://www.army.mod.uk/operations-deployments/22753.aspx

Indeed so.

 

[RosyFuture]

she has denied to the western media what the Estonian Foreign Minister claims he told her . Which prompted him to phone ashton .

You're not making sense: EstonianGuy told Olga B nothing - it was the other way round.

Neither does it make sense you saying Olga B's denial to the media was before the leaked phone call.

Did you intend to say what you did?

 

[Coolfonz]

In two and a half weeks Ukraine's gas price is going to go up from $268/'000m3 to $378...folks in the media talking about Ukraine being supplied by gas from the west, but it will be re-routed Russian gas, so it will come at European prices. IMF also insisting Ukraine must raise gas prices. Basket case.

 

[Casually Red]

Just 2 Qs, as I don't know weapons: is a silencer there?, & is the barrel long enuf for sniping, or is it unscrewable?

Channel 112 is a Ukrainian cable/satellite one (2011 figure says <1% viewing rating).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ukrainian_language_television_channels#Satellite_and_Cable (the English wiki is the most comprehensive one)

theres a dirty great silencer on the barrel and its certainly long enough to kill over a distance..butt looks telescopic . It seems what happens is Pashinsky searches the car on demands from the crowd and then leaves Maidan with them .

 

[Casually Red]

You're not making sense: EstonianGuy told Olga B nothing - it was the other way round.

Neither does it make sense you saying Olga B's denial to the media was before the leaked phone call.

Did you intend to say what you did?

no you just seem to be having problems comprehending what I said . Youve got it arse about face.

 

[butchersapron]

A gun that can kill people over a distance eh? Def blackwater and mossad.

 

[goldenecitrone]

my my old bean , you seem to be getting a bit shirty about all this kerfuffle . Not very gentlemanly .

You're starting to sound like jazzz now.

 

[Casually Red]

In two and a half weeks Ukraine's gas price is going to go up from $268/'000m3 to $378...folks in the media talking about Ukraine being supplied by gas from the west, but it will be re-routed Russian gas, so it will come at European prices. IMF also insisting Ukraine must raise gas prices. Basket case.

they need the cut price gas to power their creaky uncompetitive industries, which are in the east . And which are still effectively part of the Russian industrial complex in economic terms. Without the price discount their industries cant even operate within that Russian sphere. Forget about somehow ever competing within the EU...like seriously forget about it.
Theyll end up dismantling them and selling them to the chinese for scrap in order to pay back the IMF. If they dont collapse first.

If anyone wants to tell me why Putin would do these guys a favour and bail them out by waiving their gas debt after the shit theyve pulled Id be interested in hearing the theory .

 

[Casually Red]

and as regards this proposed EU bailout Itd be interesting to see how much of that is left once the oligarchs have finished plundering it . Troughs going to get very dry and they know it .

 

[RosyFuture]

she has denied to the western media what the Estonian Foreign Minister claims he told her . Which prompted him to phone ashton .

I'm just being logical, as peeps tend to be.

As the above shows, you said EstonianGuy phoned Ashton after Olga had made a statement to the media. But the hacked call gives no impression that Olga had already denied anything publicly.

Your above comment is nonsensical, isn't it?

If you don't think it is, do you have a link to Olga's denial?

 

[Casually Red]

I'm just being logical, as peeps tend to be.

As the above shows, you said EstonianGuy phoned Ashton after Olga had made a statement to the media. But the hacked call gives no impression that Olga had already denied anything publicly.

Your above comment is nonsensical, isn't it?

If you don't think it is, do you have a link to Olga's denial?

no i never said that . Olgas denial only came after the western media contacted her as regards the leaked phonecall, which identified her and what shed said to the Estonian minister .

 

[Eastern-Odyssey]

Georgian troops mobilizing.