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At the moment, the major task of the Russian Bear in Crimea is crowd control. Would you use mobile artillery (as distinct from tanks) for a gig like that?

I'd have thought mobile cannon would be more of a battlefield thing. kebabking likesfish ViolentPanda enlighten us as to the arts of war in this case, please.
 
Another general heard from. :)
guess who? said:
There aren't going to be any tank battles or artillery duels in Ukraine, anytime soon. If armoured columns are moving about the countryside, it's all about sabre rattling and a show of force. And what better to scare shit out of the local farmers and university students, than some giant elongated tracked vehicle with a gun as long as Putin wishes his dick was? It's the perfect weapon for the mission. No danger that it will need to be fired, and looks mean as hell.
 
guess who? said:
There aren't going to be any tank battles or artillery duels in Ukraine, anytime soon. If armoured columns are moving about the countryside, it's all about sabre rattling and a show of force. And what better to scare shit out of the local farmers and university students, than some giant elongated tracked vehicle with a gun as long as Putin wishes his dick was? It's the perfect weapon for the mission. No danger that it will need to be fired, and looks mean as hell.
Fuck that: I'm an armchair Field Marshal!:mad:

Go big or go home, I always say.
 
We still nostalgic of Soviet Union past and we wish to come back those glories well not perfect paradise of course there are some dark sides of Soviets. Ah I think western right wing government scary it may come back some kind of Socialism. I wish for that.
 
At the moment, the major task of the Russian Bear in Crimea is crowd control. Would you use mobile artillery (as distinct from tanks) for a gig like that?

I'd have thought mobile cannon would be more of a battlefield thing. kebabking likesfish ViolentPanda enlighten us as to the arts of war in this case, please.

slightly nuanced answer theoretically, but a black and white answer in this case: you can use self-propelled guns (or any Artillery) in a 'less than war' situation if you use guided ammunition (we regularly fire single round missions in Afghanistan, we've used them against snipers, mortar teams, IED laying teams etc..), but to my understanding the Russians do not use guided artillery ammunition in the calibre of weapon seen in the picture, and the guns themselves are not the most modern systems they have, so even their unguided/ballistic acccuracy would be well below that found on a modern artillery peice with GPS navigation systems and gun laying radars.

in blunt terms, no, this is not a weapon you would use in any circumstance less than WW3 - its a blunt instrument, and given the historic Soviet/Russian reliance on Artillery as a part of their battle/fire plan, its a small part of a much bigger, much blunter instrument.

E2A: as butchersapron and @guess who? have noted, they are extremely good at persuading people to fuck off.
 
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slightly nuanced answer theoretically, but a black and white answer in this case: you can use self-propelled guns (or any Artillery) in a 'less than war' situation if you use guided ammunition (we regularly fire single round missions in Afghanistan, we've used them against snipers, mortar teams, IED laying teams etc..), but to my understanding the Russians do not use guided artillery ammunition in the calibre of weapon seen in the picture, and the guns themselves are not the most modern systems they have, so even their unguided/ballistic acccuracy would be well below that found on a modern artillery peice with GPS navigation systems and gun laying radars.

in blunt terms, no, this is not a weapon you would use in any circumstance less than WW3 - its a blunt instrument, and given the historic Soviet/Russian reliance on Artillery as a part of their battle/fire plan, its a small part of a much bigger, much blunter instrument.

E2A: as butchersapron and @guess who? have noted, they are extremely good at persuading people to fuck off.
by 'less than war' do you mean 'operations other than war' (ootw) or 'small wars'?
 
by 'less than war' do you mean 'operations other than war' (ootw) or 'small wars'?

its yet another bollockspeak phrase - they go in an out of fashion. OOTW was considered not 'warry' enough, and 'small wars' too warry - so 'less than war' was invented.

its concentrating on the important stuff thats seen us see off the flip-flop wearing enemy so well ...
 
I'd like to make an appeal to all the Ukrainian "nationalists" to gather in a huge mob, tool up, form a convoy of cars, trucks, whatever - stick very close together - and drive to Crimea to take it back from Russian troops! Go "nationalists"!!
 
impotent springs to mind

images
 
USAF has announced it has sent 12 F-16C fighters to Poland at the request of the Polish government, and an additional 6 F-15C's to the NATO Baltic states Air Policing mission.
 
Its probably the local russian commander told to get a patrol moving as a show of force and they were fueled and ready to go
The British regualry used Starstreak a surface to air missile launcher in kosovo to impress the locals as its really really big and nosiy:facepalm:
Trundle it about abit locals see a huge noisy missle launcher and decide to put off murdering their neigbours till next tuesday:hmm:
 
USAF has announced it has sent 12 F-16C fighters to Poland at the request of the Polish government, and an additional 6 F-15C's to the NATO Baltic states Air Policing mission.

Their is also a US missile destroyer heading into the Black Sea. It makes you wonder what price both countries are willing to pay for small stretch of land. The thing is judging by Zbigniew Brzezinski Ukraine is a zero sum game the US must win.
 
Their is also a US missile destroyer heading into the Black Sea. It makes you wonder what price both countries are willing to pay for small stretch of land. The thing is judging by Zbigniew Brzezinski Ukraine is a zero sum game the US must win.

Isn't there some sort of treaty preventing the US sending warships into the Black Sea?
 
Jesus GG gets worse:

George Galloway MP
Russia has a LEGAL right to have 30,000 troops in Ukraine. It has half that and hasn't spilled a DROP of blood...The "prime minister" of Ukraine is self appointed. His "government" is unelected. The actual government was driven out by western backed force...The killing of 77 in Maidan was done by snipers hired by the opposition says Estonia. BBC has yet to broadcast the Ashton tapes proving this...
 
Their is also a US missile destroyer heading into the Black Sea. It makes you wonder what price both countries are willing to pay for small stretch of land. The thing is judging by Zbigniew Brzezinski Ukraine is a zero sum game the US must win.

i don't get the impression the US is willing to fight - militarily or economically - for Ukraine, but i know the former satellite sttes are shitting themselves, and the US/NATO deployments to Poland and the Baltics are a good way of calming them down, rather than have them panic and start a 'forward defence' strategy in Ukraine/Crimea by arming the loony sects and tying the Russians down. the USN deployment will be somewhere between a routine free-passage-of-the seas trip, a pointed 'you may own Crimea, but we will still go where we like' trip, and an intelligence gathering opportunity.
 
The Estonian foreign minister has said the very same thing to Catherine Ashton as soon as he returned from the scene of the killings . According to him so has the doctor who was dealing with the dead and wounded at the scene, and who has since refused the offer of a government post. [. . .]
Here's the (folksy) doc in Q:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olga_Bogomolets

Her expertise is skin &, by extension (substantively, not figuratively), cosmetic surgery. She is neither an emergency physician nor a pathologist. Nor is she a forensic weapons examiner, nor a handwriting expert. No-one has said she was either in Maidan or assisting the qualified pathologist in the morgue. More likely she was working her way thru a theatre list to keep the $$$$$ rolling in.

All this should be borne in mind when considering the truth-content of what seems to be a consensus between said plastic surgeon, the Estonian Foreign Minister, Paet, & an experienced administrator, Ashton:
1) same snipers (presumably means same team, not that a particular sniper necessarily murdered peeps from both sides);
2) same type of bullet (calibre?, batch?); &
3) same handwriting (on what? Other than death certificate what could this be?).

My transcript of The Gosh Moment (Paet, then the ex-chair of an NHS health authority):

"And in fact then what was quite disturbing the same Olga told that well [i.e. convincingly] all the evidence shows that people who were killed by snipers, from both sides, among policemen & people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides."

"Well that's . . . yer . . . that's [general indistinctness from our Lady of Upholland, the EU High Representative]"

"And then she also showed me some photos, she said that as medical doctor, she can, you know, say that it is the same . . . same handwriting, the same type of bullets, & it's really disturbing that now the new . . . ah, new coalition that they don't want to investigate what exactly happened. So that there is now stronger & stronger understanding that behind snipers they . . . it was not Seeanikovich [sic] but it was somebody from the new coalition."

"I think we [EU?] do want to investigate. I mean I suppose - didn't pick that up - that's interesting - gosh."

"Yeah, so that it was in [indistinct] disturbing that if it starts now to live its own life very powerfully it already discreditates [sic] from very beginning this new coalition."

(from 8:21 to 9:24; my emphases)

I may not be alone in being struck by Ashton's reaction to the two pieces of news: one set of snipers, & the new gov not wanting an inquiry. Her indifference was chilling, preferring to respond by emphasising, in effect, that a mere doctor & activist needs to get all real & start to effin' well act like a politician. Glad to see it's an easy transition from the new NHS ethics to those of promoting the national interest in the shark-infested oceans of foreign affairs.

But there's another possibility explaining this apparent indifference. Given that she knows this Olga I surmise this was not news to her at all. And thru repeatedly talking about it with countless others, when the perhaps Etonian Estonian raised it with her it was a case of oh-not-that-old-news-again-&-from-someone-else-who-thinks-they're-relating-a-scoop-Jesu.
 
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