kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
well, i suppose its marginally less inflamitary than launching an ICBM...
Ukraine
- Thread starter Zabo
- Start date
well, i suppose its marginally less inflamitary than launching an ICBM...
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Laws don't work that way.
Not online yet, but in the shops dated 8 March:
I did set up a Google Alert for kiev sarajevo which produced the following piece of 1 March blether from the Times via the Australian - http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...arked-world-war/story-fnb64oi6-1226841189820#
I am informed by Feedback that they had to explain to a colleague the significance of Sarajevo 1914, so maybe that backgrounder was apposite.
Up to you whether the fiver goes to the server fund then
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
The point being that Russia has Pions that aren't in museums; so a column containing a few could be Ukrainian, but could also be Russian.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Mmm, because the Russians would dig up their handful of Peonys, rather than deploy something of which they hold significantly more, and (more to the point) for which they have trained crews (as with tanks, crews of self-propelled artillery have to re-train for each model of vehicle).
So your "could", while within the realms of plausibility, scores low in the realms of probability.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
cough...
2S1's. both sides have 600+, and theres an insignia on the turret thats light blue - suggesting they might be Ukrainian, though i know nothing of Ukrainian insignia...
VP is of course correct - no one is going to bring a museum piece out of retirement when no one has used one in the best part of a decade. unless they enjoy killing their own Gunners.
2S1's. both sides have 600+, and theres an insignia on the turret thats light blue - suggesting they might be Ukrainian, though i know nothing of Ukrainian insignia...
VP is of course correct - no one is going to bring a museum piece out of retirement when no one has used one in the best part of a decade. unless they enjoy killing their own Gunners.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
They're in active service, not in museums.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Foreign journos employed at RT, all those who disagree with pro-russian state actions line shape up or shift out says RT editor in chief whilst openly lying by claiming that "two European leaders saying opposition henchmen may have been killing people.".
It's dead easy this hackery isn't it?
It's dead easy this hackery isn't it?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
How do you now that? All the wikipedia link you got your info says is that these are the number of them that different 'operators' have. Do you have any evidence that operators is, in this case, a synonym for in active service?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
There aren't going to be any tank battles or artillery duels in Ukraine, anytime soon. If armoured columns are moving about the countryside, it's all about sabre rattling and a show of force. And what better to scare shit out of the local farmers and university students, than some giant elongated tracked vehicle with a gun as long as Putin wishes his dick was? It's the perfect weapon for the mission. No danger that it will need to be fired, and looks mean as hell.
Eastern-Odyssey
Active Member
It's a treaty signed a hundred plus years ago long before modern international law, which gives indefinite lease to the US for cheaper that the annual white house paper clip bill. This treaty would never be excepted as a legally binding treaty, in today's international legal system, so why should it be excepted hundred years after it's signing? It maybe legal, like so many of these flimsy old treaties that were forced upon newly independent colonial territories, but these treaties only remain legal because they are treaties between weak states and powerful states. I think it's fair to say the Cuban government has been fighting it for years to no avail and being the prison is illegal under the treaty agreement, there not having much luck.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Functional models in museums are on "active service", Johnny. Non-functional models (lacking engines, hydraulics etc) are not.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
must be true, afterall the neo nazis arent even anti semitic, and call jews their brothers
. The juntas only a few weeks old and its writ doesnt run in the russian areas. They havent had a chance to legally discriminate yet and dont currently possess the ability. But they clearly showed their hand from day one.Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
You still wouldn't dig up a model of which you have a thin dozen (compared to the hundreds of others available) to do a bit of sabre-rattling. Not when you have newer artillery closer, and for which you have a surplus of trained crews.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Unless that's what they did, to the contrary of the conjecture of armchair generals everywhere.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Are you privy to where Russia keeps its Pions?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I see: military museums are actually armouries that are open to the public.
No, but military museums often have models of non-decommissioned kit on display alongside the decommissioned kit. The only difference between kit on active operational service, and non-decommissioned kit in a museum is that the museum kit will have been "mothballed" - i.e. the firing mechanisms for the armaments will have been removed, along with all live ammo.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Maybe in Britain. The cost of weaponry etc being what it is, and the Canadian military budget being what it is, what you will find in museums here, is decommissioned, and likely - partially stripped [engines, radios etc] specimens. The weaponry that can be used, with some few exceptions, will be with active regiments/units.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Nulands appointee Yatsenyuk has turned up cap in hand at NATO headquarters today in a sad attempt at issuing ultimatums. The first thing he was asked by a journalist was if he didnt want things to escalate what on earth was he doing at NATO HQ. Second thing asked was he planning on joining.
News are also saying Crimea have announced the creation of a series of ministries. Taxation, security, police, military, health..basically all the ministries of an Independent state. Looks like thats that, depending on the referendum.
News are also saying Crimea have announced the creation of a series of ministries. Taxation, security, police, military, health..basically all the ministries of an Independent state. Looks like thats that, depending on the referendum.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
No. I do, however, understand basic tactical deployment, and that the "western military district" of Russia, as with its Soviet predeccessor, keeps a decent quantity of mobile artillery and mounted infantry pointing westward, along with missile brigrades.
We had this stuff drummed into us back in the days when we were supposed to defend the north German plain from the Soviet hordes, and it still holds true today - standard tactical deployment patterns whereby you set rapid-deployment elements bordering any state you don't control.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Unless that's what they did, to the contrary of the conjecture of armchair generals everywhere.
It doesn't make tactical sense, unless you're a drooling idiot.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
It's always been the case that the rank and file and the noncoms know better than the brass.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Look, it's just 'News' now
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
No doubt they'll have the good stuff near the 'Western Front', as well as near China. Doesn't address the issue of where the Pions are located.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You realise this pic was supposed to be in Crimea right?
Gromit
International Man of Misery
Can't the UK solve this in the British way of doing things.
When my brother and I fought over possessions mum would come in and take it and say neither of you can have it and walked off with it and kept it herself.
Therefore the Queen should walk in and say you've both been naughty I'm claiming it for the UK.
When my brother and I fought over possessions mum would come in and take it and say neither of you can have it and walked off with it and kept it herself.
Therefore the Queen should walk in and say you've both been naughty I'm claiming it for the UK.
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Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You seem to be talking as if these are russian mobile artillery that have been moved into south or east Ukraine outside of Crimea. That's a reason why we might be having this conversation.Yess? Why else would we be having this discussion?
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