Ukraine
- Thread starter Zabo
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Eastern-Odyssey
Active Member
Quite a few diplomats have been mentioning the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurance as the flimsy bit of international law to prevent Russian intervention. I may be wrong but I don't think the memorandum is binding in international law. However, because of the clause "respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine" NATO would be expect to intervene during any Russian intervention. What I find funny though, is the clause "not to put economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence her politics" was already broken by the EU/US and Russia, but mainly the EU/US when they decided to pressure loans, EU membership and backing what is technically a coup. Especially taking into account as mentioned by numerous Ukrainian experts it's against the constitution to appoint a new president.
This so far seems like a easily solved problem, have a referendum in Crimea, shortly followed with further referendums in other Eastern parts of the country were the Russian/Ukrainian mix is 50/50. Although according to Onopenco one of Ukraine's supreme judges this is unconstitutional, despite the obvious that the current government is unconstitutional. It seems to me that the EU/US axis want to do everything to prevent succession, because if the East and especially Crimea is lost, then they also lose this New Great Game their playing out in Eastern Europe.
Other interesting new according to the Ukraine news (which seems very biased anti-Russian and in favour of the nationalists, I am assuming it's had money and training from John McCain and the IRI) a military group is trying to discredit Right Sector, by demanding guns from an arms depot, on their behalf.
On the other hand Right Sector have announced they are going after all the corrupt businessmen and taking over their business. I kind of have a soft spot for them here, actually I can not only understand were they get their support from, but I'm sure many people Western Europeans would agree with the same activity. One on the hit list is Sergey Kurchenko a banking and energy billionaire, who already looks like his on the run after shredding documents during the revolution. However, I get the suspicion that their is a selective process, in who they are targeting e.g people related to Russia and the old regime and that goes without mentioning some of the people involved in Right Sector, like Chechan war hero who's been involved in Ukraine's criminal underground for years. Despite that I wonder how long it's going to take for the EU and US to except the purging of their pro-Oligarchy.
This so far seems like a easily solved problem, have a referendum in Crimea, shortly followed with further referendums in other Eastern parts of the country were the Russian/Ukrainian mix is 50/50. Although according to Onopenco one of Ukraine's supreme judges this is unconstitutional, despite the obvious that the current government is unconstitutional. It seems to me that the EU/US axis want to do everything to prevent succession, because if the East and especially Crimea is lost, then they also lose this New Great Game their playing out in Eastern Europe.
Other interesting new according to the Ukraine news (which seems very biased anti-Russian and in favour of the nationalists, I am assuming it's had money and training from John McCain and the IRI) a military group is trying to discredit Right Sector, by demanding guns from an arms depot, on their behalf.
On the other hand Right Sector have announced they are going after all the corrupt businessmen and taking over their business. I kind of have a soft spot for them here, actually I can not only understand were they get their support from, but I'm sure many people Western Europeans would agree with the same activity. One on the hit list is Sergey Kurchenko a banking and energy billionaire, who already looks like his on the run after shredding documents during the revolution. However, I get the suspicion that their is a selective process, in who they are targeting e.g people related to Russia and the old regime and that goes without mentioning some of the people involved in Right Sector, like Chechan war hero who's been involved in Ukraine's criminal underground for years. Despite that I wonder how long it's going to take for the EU and US to except the purging of their pro-Oligarchy.
They smashed the Red Army at the battle of Warsaw in 1920. Polish history is full of them getting twatted by bigger neighbours but just occasionally pulling off a miraculous victory.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
The chance to avenge Katyn is not one they'd easily pass up.
SovietArmy
Well-Known Member
Highly doubting Putin invade Ukraine, Puting will avoid wars, he don't want it. I think will be similar case like in Georgia roll tanks for few weeks and leave.
rekil
to menny cranks
.
What is this odious bollocks. They are nutters and need to be crushed.
SovietArmy
Well-Known Member
Will not invasion can we stop to speculate.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The gangs all here now.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
i think much more recent stuff would add to the mix significantly - Russia telling Poland that it didn't have the right to join NATO/EU because it was in Russia's backyard etc.. a real element of 'will you just fuck off..'. they really don't like the Russian attitude that anything east of Berlin is Moscows business.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Past insults, recent insults, it's pretty much all the same as far as Poland is concerned. But we're getting ahead of ourselves.
And evil as Putin may be, he's not stupid.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
oh yeah, he's not daft enough to push anyone into a corner that meant replying with force was their only real option - i rather doubt he wants western Ukraine anyway, its full of people who don't like him and it would give others a stick to beat him with.
RosyFuture
will baser instincts win out?
Never knock sausage:
Almost as serious as sausage is . . .
Heroic Ukrainian Hero (not a footballer) topples Boris the Bear:
But that's because although some, like The Riot, say Putin is a cat, he is really paper:
RosyFuture
will baser instincts win out?
i don't understand talk of assurances given that WOTAN is a attack-one-attack-us-all pact. What did you mean?
It won't happen with PL, not least because no Western imperialist power wants war on the scale it would be with Russia.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
it was in the context of Russia not actually crossing the Polish border, but getting close and being its normally delightful and humble self. it was a hypothetical.
RosyFuture
will baser instincts win out?
Report of the Sunday 25 May referendum Q decided by yesterday's Crimea Rada:
Согласно постановлению, в бюллетени будет внесен вопрос "Автономная республика Крым обладает государственной самостоятельностью и входит в состав Украины на основе договоров и соглашений (да или нет)?".
Also voted for Crimea Rada election that day. It is also day of UA presidential election (probably just the first round as election needs 50% plus one vote).
http://www.interfax.ru/world/361626
Eastern-Odyssey
Active Member
Disturbing video. I've heard of the nationalists guarding road blocks and attacking buses to the Crimea, but this is probably the clearest one I've seen. These are meant to Titushek, but in reality could be anyone government paid thugs, government supporters, or just ordinary people returning to Crimea.
I would like to know what the gun shots were, in the day light recording. But, it's only obvious they are killing people here and there.
I would like to know what the gun shots were, in the day light recording. But, it's only obvious they are killing people here and there.
Eastern-Odyssey
Active Member
Yes but the Central government is still calling it unconstitutional (clause 20 Article 92 of the constitution) the article mentions it paragraph 5 onwards. The government judge also says in the article that the international community will also call the referendum unconstitutional. Taking into account how vital Crimea is for all parties involved, the central government is liable to call the referendum unconstitutional and blame everything on Russia instigating separatism, while the EU/US gives support, it's already happening now. The Ukraine government has just asked for a UN security Council session on the issue.
gosub
~#
If there is a referendum in Ukraine, I hope its not like the 1920's Leith referendum and the overall vote vote counts more than each ward. Each ward should count separately with a view to any potential partition. - I'm only going on discussing it with my Dad mind, mostly today I've been mending fences, humping coal, and various business rated stuff
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
always good to patch up relationships
gosub
~#
These were real fences from the storms you lot have been having down south. Spring has sprung though which is nice
gosub
~#
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
I don't think he's defending Right Sector or what they are doing, just saying that he and others have sympathy for the principle of expropriating oligarchs' property.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it sounds like something off the archers [/derail]These were real fences from the storms you lot have been having down south. Spring has sprung though which is nice
Eastern-Odyssey
Active Member
Synagogue desecrated in Simferopol
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
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