Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
yeah..they even elected that other bloke president they hate him so much
Ukraine
- Thread starter Zabo
- Start date
yeah..they even elected that other bloke president they hate him so much
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
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Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
But you're ok with the next fifty posts on the thread being about Putin's man-boobs.
seventh bullet
sovietwave
The neo-Eurasianism of Dugin has elements of fascism or European new right thinking (but that needs some qualification). I think Shekhovtsov's post is crude though. Dugin is eclectic and his own version of Eurasianism is focused on his particular geopolitical thinking. It shouldn't be confused with more recent National Bolshevism (of which he was briefly a part), the classical Eurasianist currents of Russian emigres in western Europe after the revolution, and the contemporary Eurasianisms of Tatars or Kazakhs either. His is very much a Russo-centric imperial project, though.
I'm not sure if Dugin can be described as the second most-hated Russian. Most Russians (or non-Russians for that matter) won't really be aware of his activity, sort of being an intellectual entryism into the Russian elite, in the think tanks, military and nationalist student circles trying to influence Russian foreign policy. Although, over the years he has also been something of a cultural commentator on Russian television.
classicdish
Well-Known Member
Similar to the status the Welsh language has in Wales perhaps (where 20% of people speak it)? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_United_Kingdom#Wales
(It might vary from region to region depending on where the Polish speakers lived.)
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
After all this time, I expect better from you.
eatmorecheese
He's fallen out of the car again
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
now it's putin's turn again
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
Putin's probably sent some Antonov AN-124s in, laden with hardware.
The Antonovs being a nice reminder to the locals of the Ukraine/ Russian strategic alliance.
ExtraRefined
Better than you at everything you love
Charge of the Light Brigade
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
if i were Vlad, and i were clever, i'd have some of my reconaisance aircraft fly along the border in the hope that some excitable fool would take a pot shot at it.
anyone shooting down, or attempting to shoot down, a Russian aircraft in Russian or international airspace would be giving Vlad carte blanche to do whatever he liked - if he doesn't do anthing he's a wise statesman, if he retaliates he's legitimately defending Russian, and international, security and law...
he is clever, and yes, he does have his reconaisance aircraft flying up and down the border.
anyone shooting down, or attempting to shoot down, a Russian aircraft in Russian or international airspace would be giving Vlad carte blanche to do whatever he liked - if he doesn't do anthing he's a wise statesman, if he retaliates he's legitimately defending Russian, and international, security and law...
he is clever, and yes, he does have his reconaisance aircraft flying up and down the border.
What happened if Moscow does send the troops in? A lot of squawking obviously; but the EU can't send the troops in and I can't imagine Washington is prepared to go toe to toe with the Russians over the Ukraine. Economic sanction I suppose but who would that damage more?
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
I think it's very unlikely they will.
I don't reckon the US would do anything. They are completely overstretched as it is. They can't afford it.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
i don't see anyone in Europe being willing to play hardball with Vlad, if he were to take a couple of relatively small Russian enclaves under the guise (reality?) of stabilisation and thats it, then Europe would get over it pretty quickly, if he made a much wider move for big lumps/all of Ukraine then Poland and the Baltic states would really, properly panic (with good reason, given their history..). i don't believe the EU/NATO would fight Russia for Ukraine, but if he scared the Poles/Baltics enough theres a question about how hard they would work to destabilise Russian controlled Ukraine and Belorussia, and how Vlad might respond.
if you want to playtop trumps, the UK, France and Germany dwarf Russia in terms of warfighting capability - he's got more nukes, but we've got enough to wipe out western Russia, and if he starts playing that game the US has 30,000 service personnel and lots more of their families in Europe...
Aye. Last night I was thinking "Crimea = North Ossettia?"
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
I think so too apart from the obvious next move of Russia securing the strategic base in the Crimea (which has now been more or less approved by the west as legitimate following their stance on the Kiew uprising).
The way Vlads probably seeing Kiew and wider Ukraine is purely from a financial perspective. He had a customer for his energy services that couldn't pay up any more. The crowds in Kiew have facilitated a handover to the west for the responsibility of underwriting payments, therefore keeping the cash flowing into Moscow.
Clever chap.
But not the political will.
Your point about how the Poles will react is spot on though. They're bloody minded enough to try going toe to toe with Vlad.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Didn't the US donate some free fighter jets (F-1 11s, I think) to Poland about ten years back?
RosyFuture
will baser instincts win out?
That's exactly what Crimean Rada did yesterday: decided that 25 May Autonomous Republic will have referendum on whether UA law & treaties apply in Crimea Autonomous Republic. It's one legal way to say, shall we be independent (then join Russia, be protected under its wing, & be autonomous republic in that federation)? That is the day of UA Presidential Election (probably the first vote as no-one will get 50% + 1 vote).
Igor & Igorina may be glad if Crimea returns to Russian Federation - even though it doesn't change the price of sausage. It was pseudo-duumvirate of ascending Krushchof & descending Malenkof who gave Crimea to Ukrainian Council Socialist Republic in Feb 1954: it was not democratic decision of Russian Council Federated Socialist Republic or of the narrower Russian people. History can sometimes be like the Spanish idea that revenge is a dish best served cold.
(All Russian football fans ARE laughing at Ukrainian manhood: 4 second leg matches last night, UA lose all 4. So much for Ukrainian patriotism & fighting ability. So much for Glory to Ukraine!, Glory to his Heroes!)
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Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
Is that a Zenit St. Petersburg scarf?
(Only kidding Rosy ;-))
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
broadly - its main capability is new build F-16C's with all the bells and whistles - stand off weapons, lots of guided stuff and they work them very hard. their second line is ex-East German MiG-29's and some SU-22 'Fitter' strike aircraft - both have had decent upgrades and gets lots of flying time.
its, in numerical terms, not a big number, but this is by no stetch of the imagination a 'all fur coat and no knickers' air force - they are in quantative terms (equipment, systems, training etc..) well into NATO's top 4.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
And they're probably fit to fight, unlike Mad Vlad's Barmy Army.
When I was in Piter there was a case of a young conscript beaten so badly by his so-called mates he had to have his legs and wedding tackle amputated, due to gangrene.
With issues like that, army morale can't be the highest.
Though OTOH, MVBA did do the business against Georgia, so maybe those who survive the hazing with their genitals intact do have some fighting spirit.
You reckon the Poles would go it alone if they thought the Auld Enemy was rearing its head again?
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
i suppose it would depend on what assurances they got from the rest of NATO and the US - but in terms of what they would like to do if they thought the bear was on the prowl again, the answer is an unequivical 'yes'.
i've not worked with their Air Force or wider defence scene, but i've done exercises with the Polish Army in Europe and been around them in Afghanistan - i really rate them: training, ethos, moralé etc.. i think they'd be an unpleasant surprise and a right handful, particularly if your previous experience of them was Polish Cavalry on horseback charging a Tank Division...
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