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Ukraine

I think there's plenty of evidence that a deal with Putin's empire might be better for Ukraine than an association agreement with the EU empire.

Take aircraft manufacturing. Russia and Ukraine due to their Soviet history have cross-distributed capacity. Due to all the political posturing and bickering this capacity has been left to wither at the expense of Ukrainian jobs. Ukraine does not have the economies of scale to run an aerospace industry. But together with Russia it does. There is simply no such collaboration potential with the EU. The EU is not interested in “Russian” technology and would prefer that Russian aerospace potential disappeared completely.

My point is that Russia would actually buy Ukrainian products. The EU would not. The EU instead wants a market for its own goods. This is the same problem as during the 1990s. In the case of Russia, whole industries were shocked into competing on the global market even before they could invest in upgrades. So, naturally, they failed and the Russian market was flooded with western higher quality consumer and industrial products and services. This sort of shock is what Ukraine will face, again. The witchdoctors who came up with the notion that free trade is a panacea should be lined up against the wall and shot. No western country was exposed to free trade during its development phase. This also applies to the Asian Tigers, specifically Japan and South Korea. Ukraine is not at the point where it can have real free trade with the EU. Its WTO membership is bad enough, but at least there it has some protectionist shielding as does Russia.
I agree to an extent. There are problems with this, however. The status quo is rotten, and it is particularly rotten for the Ukrainian-speaking West, as most of the industry is in the East. There is a great deal of grinding poverty in Ukraine. If I were Ukrainian, I'd be asking why the country cannot look both ways - trade with the EU and Russia.
 
UCSJ who are usually quite reliable and quite critical of the government printed an appeal from someone claiming to be taking a leading role at Maidan (a "commander") to "the jews of the world" to support the Ukrainian oppo, which he admits includes fash. They printed it without comment which I was really surprised at.

I wouldn't trust any of what those large bodies say tbh on either side. There are loads of "factions" within the Ukrainian Jewish "community leadership" with some (Chabad etc) supporting the Kremlin and some not, there are several different competing "chief rabbis" (and i imagine the situation's similar with Muslims etc as well).
 
Hmmm. He says this:

"I personally have communicated with the heads of a whole number of groups that consider themselves radical, who have assured me that no manifestations of anti-Semitism have been or will be planned."

Ah sure, it'll be grand, that nice fellah from the radical group says there's nothing to worry about.

Yep.

There's an element I think of much of the community not wanting to get publically drawn in on one side or another and therefore being perceived as assisting the other side which could make things much worse for them. Also, much public anti-semitism over there consists of people complaining about "those damn jews always complaining about everything" so could be an element of that (anti-semitic stuff in Moldova was blamed on a "jewish business project" by right-wing politicians and church members) :facepalm:
 
It's the fate of invaders' offspring everywhere - like settles in the West Bank and artisanal cupcake makers in Brixton.

What are you talking about, the Russian areas of Ukraine were historically part of Russia. Invasion if you can invade somewhere by standing-still while some dictator scribbles lines on maps I suppose.:rolleyes:
 
They are also obviously (and I'm sure sensibly) trying not to antagonise anyone.

OT OT OT OT - someone back home told me that after several incidents of vandalism in the Jewish cemetery in Dublin, the Israeli embassy in Ireland asked the Chief Rabbi's office to hush the affair up.
 
The Problem is historicaly the russians treated the baltics and ukraine badly hence war memorials being toppled etc glorification of the SS they might have been bastards but they werent russian bastards liberation really doesnt work if you hang about for 50 years making the place unitdy and generally out staying your welcome:(
Plus putain considers a trade deal one way you do what I say or else.
Merkil is a bit more subtle:hmm:
The EU doesnt want Ukraine as a full member anytime soon it cant compete or be propped up
 
The Problem is historicaly the russians treated the baltics and ukraine badly hence war memorials being toppled etc glorification of the SS they might have been bastards but they werent russian bastards liberation really doesnt work if you hang about for 50 years making the place unitdy and generally out staying your welcome:(

cough.

slide13.jpg

cough.

If people are glorifying the SS, though, there's something more than just anti-Russian feeling going on there.
 
The Problem is historicaly the russians treated the baltics and ukraine badly hence war memorials being toppled etc glorification of the SS they might have been bastards but they werent russian bastards liberation really doesnt work if you hang about for 50 years making the place unitdy and generally out staying your welcome:(
Plus putain considers a trade deal one way you do what I say or else.
Merkil is a bit more subtle:hmm:
The EU doesnt want Ukraine as a full member anytime soon it cant compete or be propped up
And again, it's not a simple as that. Latvia, in particular, underwent extensive industrialisation during its Soviet era. Russians moved there to work in the new factories. It is their grandchildren who are now being marginalised. And Latvia wasn't quite a downtrodden region - it enjoyed a higher standard of living than most of the Soviet Union.
 
:oops::facepalm:
Re the SS still a lot of anti semetic feeling left in eastern europe I guess 50 years of communism makes anything but communism start to look good :mad:
Plus the failure of the current goverments to work gets people seeking alternatives communism/ socalism being rather fataly flawed as an idea bit like the islamists in the middle east facism seems an attractive answer.
 
Trouble was the latvians had no say in the russians moving in or any say in joining the soviet union so not
And again, it's not a simple as that. Latvia, in particular, underwent extensive industrialisation during its Soviet era. Russians moved there to work in the new factories. It is their grandchildren who are now being marginalised. And Latvia wasn't quite a downtrodden region - it enjoyed a higher standard of living than most of the Soviet Union.

Just 1200000 people sent to the gulag
Invaded by the soviets twice latvian banned as a language and russia still saying what they did was legit so can't imagine why they might have a problem with russians :rolleyes:
 
Trouble was the latvians had no say in the russians moving in or any say in joining the soviet union so not


Just 1200000 people sent to the gulag
Invaded by the soviets twice latvian banned as a language and russia still saying what they did was legit so can't imagine why they might have a problem with russians :rolleyes:
Yes. And now it is their turn to mistreat a minority that has nowhere else to go. They become refugees in the only country they have ever lived in.

Your figure of 1.2 million is wrong, btw. That would have been pretty much everyone.

I'm not saying that there is not a heavy weight of historical baggage. I am saying Latvia is dealing with that baggage badly.
 
What are you talking about, the Russian areas of Ukraine were historically part of Russia. Invasion if you can invade somewhere by standing-still while some dictator scribbles lines on maps I suppose.:rolleyes:

Only since 1783: not good, as irredentist claims go.

Granted, it was occupied by Russia from the 10th to 12th centuries; but that was Kievan Rus, named for its capital, Kiev.
 
The Customs Union requires that labour laws be unfied along the lines of the Russian laws.
:oops::facepalm:
Re the SS still a lot of anti semetic feeling left in eastern europe I guess 50 years of communism makes anything but communism start to look good :mad:
Plus the failure of the current goverments to work gets people seeking alternatives communism/ socalism being rather fataly flawed as an idea bit like the islamists in the middle east facism seems an attractive answer.
Explain then the widespread nostalgia for the soviet state across much of south and east ukraine?
 
Yes. And now it is their turn to mistreat a minority that has nowhere else to go. They become refugees in the only country they have ever lived in.

Your figure of 1.2 million is wrong, btw. That would have been pretty much everyone.

I'm not saying that there is not a heavy weight of historical baggage. I am saying Latvia is dealing with that baggage badly.
I agree unfortunatly not sure how things could improve Russia isnt seen as a good neighbour by anyone unfortunatly :(
 
I agree unfortunatly not sure how things could improve Russia isnt seen as a good neighbour by anyone unfortunatly :(
Not sure how much of a shit Putin gives about the Baltic states' Russian-speaking minorities. But things can improve without any kind of rapprochement with Russia. It has far more to do with the way that, for instance, Latvians see and define themselves. All they have to do is to accept that everyone born within their borders is Latvian, that there is such a thing as a Russian-speaking Latvian, and that such people deserve dignity and rights within a wider Latvian-speaking society. At the moment, they do none of these things, deny citizenship to more than 10 per cent of their own population and impose Latvian-language tests at all levels of society. But they can do all this without even looking at Russia.
 
Unlikey to happen really for historical reasons see anglo indians and anglo irish they disappeared into history you:(
 
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...leader-disbands-riot-police-crimea-separatism

The Russian president, Vladimir Putin, has reportedly ordered an immediate test of combat readiness of troops in central and western Russia in a move that will dramatically elevate fears of a separatist threat to Ukraine, already ravaged by weeks of violent protest that led to the removal of its pro-Russian leader, Viktor Yanukovych.

Russia's state news agencies quoted the defence minister, Sergei Shoigu, saying Putin ordered the test at 2pm Moscow time on Wednesday. The Kremlin was unable to confirm the order.

The exercise was followed with a statement from the Russian foreign ministry claiming that extremists are "imposing their will" in the Ukraine and whipping up religious tensions. Priests and property belonging to the Moscow-based Russian Orthodox church had been threatened, the statement said, adding that these tension could cause "an even bigger schism in Ukrainian society".
 
http://rt.com/news/crimea-ukraine-protest-clashes-840/

Bottles, stones and flags flew in the air as thousands of pro- and anti-Russian demonstrators clashed in front of the parliament building in Simferopol, the capital of Ukraine's autonomous Crimea region.

Tension between the rival groups rallying next to one another intensified after hours of demonstrating, with people wielding Russian, Ukrainian, Crimean and Crimean Tatar flags getting involved in clashes. Demonstrators slammed each other with flags and threw stones as leaders on both sides urged their followers to avoid provocations.

One person taking part in the demonstrations died of a heart attack, the Crimean Health Ministry reported. Five people also sought medical help due to high blood pressure and two more received light injuries in clashes, according to Itar-Tass.
 
Any news on what's going on with the nuclear reactors? With absolutely no info on it whatsoever I can only assume they're either completely unguarded or 'guarded' by fash, neither of which sounds particularly comforting.
 
Arseniy Yatsenyuk named Ukraine’s new prime minister.

Arseniy Petrovych Yatsenyuk (Ukrainian: Арсеній Петрович Яценюк, Arseniy Yatseniuk; born May 22, 1974) is a Ukrainianpolitician, economist and lawyer and current Prime Minister of Ukraine. [1] Yatsenyuk served in the government of Ukraine as Minister of Economy from 2005 to 2006; subsequently he wasForeign Minister of Ukraine in 2007 and Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada (parliament) from 2007 to 2008. Currently he is one of the leaders of Ukraine's second biggest party[2]All-Ukrainian Union "Fatherland" and leader of the parliamentary faction of "Fatherland".
 
Google translate this.

Summary (not mine):
The Right Sector has announced it will begin "cooperating" with Ukrainian trade unions. As part of this cooperation, the ultra-nationalists are planning on "placing Ukrainian trade union activities under our control", to prevent oligarchs from using workers for their political purposes
 
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