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Ukraine

Pickman's model said:
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:confused:
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No, POW, but if he had been part of the above, do you think they could have refused?
 
J Ed said:
There have been pretty large and active demonstrations in Bulgaria and Hungary, both countries have sizeable far-right groups with parliamentary representation.

What I find very worrying is, following some power sharing with the far-right, the prospect of Ukraine becoming a hub of European fascism... giving financial support, training and above all an example of 'national revolution' to fascists elsewhere.
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and now weapons, lots of them.
 
'Scuse me not having read the entire thread: but I've searched for references to Klitschko and not found an answer.

Does anyone know whether he's affiliated to the Right, or just surfing on the wave of their street-fighting?
 
BBC R4 reporting that Russia has said that the revolution/coup/whatever in Ukraine, and the methods used in that, are a threat to Russia and its people.

unfortunately, the BBC website hasn't caught up with R4, so no linky - i tried RT as well, because the precise wording is important - but i can't find the particular story... with luck it'll be on something a bit later.

countries, by and large, do not use such language because they are bored...
 
kebabking said:
BBC R4 reporting that Russia has said that the revolution/coup/whatever in Ukraine, and the methods used in that, are a threat to Russia and its people.

unfortunately, the BBC website hasn't caught up with R4, so no linky - i tried RT as well, because the precise wording is important - but i can't find the particular story... with luck it'll be on something a bit later.

countries, by and large, do not use such language because they are bored...
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Quite right, they use them as part of sabre rattling power plays. Where are the troops movements? The redeployment, the cancelled leave? Calm down.
 
laptop said:
'Scuse me not having read the entire thread: but I've searched for references to Klitschko and not found an answer.

Does anyone know whether he's affiliated to the Right, or just surfing on the wave of their street-fighting?
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There is nothing in the official literature of Udar, his party, to suggest affiliation with the Right. They're a right-leaning social democratic party, according to their self-description - pro-EU, rather anti-Russian (oppose the Russian naval base), based in Kiev, support overwhelmingly in the west of the country. From what I can tell, they call for reforms to make Ukraine more like an EU country, and campaign on an anti-corruption platform (to contrast themselves with the two main blocs, I would think).
 
It's a made up party funded from and by Germany to split the putin block due to his (Klitcshko) national popularity. It's a potemkin party,
 
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butchersapron said:
Quite right, they use them as part of sabre rattling power plays. Where are the troops movements? The redeployment, the cancelled leave? Calm down.
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while that is true, to say such a thing without also doing some of the things you suggest would be worse than saying nothing - as you say, saying 'blah blah threat blah blah' without doing anything to suggest that further measures are being contemplated is just see-through rubbish. if you want to do a bit sabre rattling, you need to rattle your sabre. press releases, broadly, don't cut that mustard.

perhaps they will conduct some exercises, or move an armoured brigade a bit closer to the border - not to do that would defeat the point of the press release.
 
Makes sense that they're funded from Germany. Their basic position seems to boil down to: 'We want Ukraine to be more like Germany' (lots of talk of social markets)
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Makes sense that they're funded from Germany. Their basic position seems to boil down to: 'We want Ukraine to be more like Germany' (lots of talk of social markets)
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Germany isn't actually a social democracy, it just plays one on television. If Klitchsko gets his chance to make Ukraine like Germany, he is likely to find the results disappointing.
 
butchersapron said:
It's a made up party funded from and by Germany to split the putin block due to his national popularity. It's a potemkin party,
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Also because he's (along with his brother) almost certainly the most famous living Ukrainian and therefore makes a good figurehead, one that's easily recognisable and who plays well outside of Ukraine especially in Germany where he's spent most of his life and where the bulk of his boxing career took place. Apparently he speaks much better German than Ukrainian. His English is also very good. He's a candidate who's perfect for beign paraded around on the foreign media, but not one that has a great deal of popular support within Ukraine.

butchersapron said:
Quite right, they use them as part of sabre rattling power plays. Where are the troops movements? The redeployment, the cancelled leave? Calm down.
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Yes it is sabre rattling, and yes if Russia was going to intervene militarilty there would have to be a build up and we'd all know about it, but we can infer from their choice to use this kind of rhetoric that they're very unhappy and want to put pressure on Germany and the US. If the western powers had got some kind of tacit arrangement or a political solution to ameliorate Russia's concerns then the rhetoric would be different.
 
And this is the first time I've got this message:

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The Application/Web Site is blocked according to the organization security policy. For more information, please contact your local helpdesk.
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butchersapron said:
Quite right, they use them as part of sabre rattling power plays. Where are the troops movements? The redeployment, the cancelled leave? Calm down.
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Media, Sky News, etc, qouting Russia saying "current Ukraine leaders guilty of armed mutiny", now the games are over, the gloves will come off.
 
Some interesting stuff from Paul Craig Roberts here. He seems a confused person though - one of the founders of 'Reaganomics' yet outspoken critic of the republican party and neo-liberalism. His analysis/reports seem to match up with what I've been reading in this thread.
In western Ukraine the only organized and armed force is the ultra-nationalist Right Sector. From the way this group’s leaders speak, they assume that they are in charge. One of the group’s leaders, Aleksandr Muzychko, has pledged to fight against “Jews and Russians until I die.” Asserting the Right Sector’s authority over the situation, Muzychko declared that now that the democratically elected government has been overthrown, “there will be order and discipline” or “Right Sector squads will shoot the bastards on the spot.”

The bastards are any protesters who dare to protest the Right Sector’s control.

Muzychko declared, “The next president of Ukraine will be from Right Sector.”
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According to the Moscow Times, this is what a senior Russian official has to say: “If Ukraine breaks apart, it will trigger a war.” Ukraine “will lose Crimera first,” because Russia “will go in just as we did in Georgia.” Another Russian official said: “ We will not allow Europe and the US to take Ukraine from us. The states of the former Soviet Union, we are one family. They think Russia is still as weak as in the early 1990s but we are not.”
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Fez909 said:
Some interesting stuff from Paul Craig Roberts here. He seems a confused person though - one of the founders of 'Reaganomics' yet outspoken critic of the republican party and neo-liberalism. His analysis/reports seem to match up with what I've been reading in this thread.
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Tbh that's what casually red has simply been reposting from RT - not what most people have been saying.

edit: and there we go, all his sources = RT.
 
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