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Ukraine

goldenecitrone said:
About as much chance of that happening as of you and Pickman's going on a peacekeeping mission to Ukraine. A sort of UN Laurel and Hardy to cheer up the beleagured Ukrainians. Poor sods.
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why would i want to go to a peacekeeping mission to the ukraine? i don't think i've said anything which could lead you to suppose i support the installation of a peacekeeping force there. you by contrast have with regard to syria said...
 
butchersapron said:
These 'national revolutions' require much larger active social dissatisfaction (with maybe historical grudges being important for at least a large minority) with a few key triggering events to bring a mass of people to a point where it becomes a question of either/or - they can't do it on their own. How many places across eastern/southern europe have these conditions? I genuinely don't know.
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Bulgaria has always had popular far right movements and Bulgaria not only seems somewhat unstable, but the right is on the increase: http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115954/bulgaria-crisis-2013-protests-violence-push-country-brink. On the other hand Jobbik have 12% of seats in government in Hungry quite a lot for a far right party. However, I don't think the parties are large enough to get the support, but it's not the support they need, it's the important lesson in the strategy of how to get to power. Stick to a legitimate protest movement, continuously escalate the situation behind the scenes until the government looses control and then appoint themselves to key positions once the government has fallen.
 
A repeat performance of what we've seen in Kiev is highly unlikely anywhere else, but I think we're definitely going to see increased far-right violence across Europe now.
 
Eastern-Odyssey said:
Bulgaria has always had popular far right movements and Bulgaria not only seems somewhat unstable, but the right is on the increase: http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115954/bulgaria-crisis-2013-protests-violence-push-country-brink. On the other hand Jobbik have 12% of seats in government in Hungry quite a lot for a far right party. However, I don't think the parties are large enough to get the support, but it's not the support they need, it's the important lesson in the strategy of how to get to power. Stick to a legitimate protest movement, continuously escalate the situation behind the scenes until the government looses control and then appoint themselves to key positions once the government has fallen.
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Yep, that will be the headline lesson from this for them - now they've seen it actually been done for real the theory takes on a rather more material tone. Even when/if failures follow.
 
RedDragon said:
How can they talk about a revolution when the ill-gotten assets haven't been impounded - let's start with the blonde lady's 1.5 billion and all that is stashed in London banks/property.
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I don't think the Right Sector like her to much, she's probably got a noose waiting for her just like Yanukovych. Found this on one of their VK pages. Drain the Swindler.

3Qskn-gM06A.jpg
 
The biggest scandal around far-right violence here in Germany in recent years was the NSU affair, which involved a very clandestine cell of fascists who killed about ten people over a decade.

That they had to resort to those tactics implies that the space in which they could act otherwise was blocked. For them to rear their ugly heads, they will need not only the example of Ukraine, but also a change in local conditions.
 
Oh, and another thing. I see people on facebook saying the majority of protestors weren't fascist. Maybe not, but they certainly didn't do anything to oppose them, or even acknowledge it was a problem, did they? Even if they'd said, "we need their muscle to fight Yanukovich, so we are holding our noses", that would still be utterly fucked, but it would at least involve some acknowledgement of the rabid dog they were trying to pet.
 
J Ed said:
Would be interested in hearing a bit about your background, views and how you found this thread, Eastern-Odyssey
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I was going through some of the groups followed by Sergiy Chapligin on his VK page, I think his the leader of VK and has a lot of interesting things on his page. I found most of their VK pages by just Google search after finding their names out, when they have done press conferences, or been mentioned on websites etc.
 
I saw bios of some of the dead on a site, which I can't find now, listing political affiliation and so on, quite a few Svoboda members as you'd expect. It might be interesting to see if a full list appears.
 
butchersapron said:
I can't see this article as i'm over my 30 per month limit but it looks like it should do.
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Vitali Klitschko, who defends his World Boxing Council heavyweight title against Britain's Danny Williams in Las Vegas on Dec 11, has admitted to having used steroids earlier in his career.

He tested positive for a banned substance in 1996 when still an amateur and was instantly thrown off the Ukrainian boxing team for the Atlanta Olympics.

Klitschko had planned to box at super-heavyweight while his younger brother, Wladimir, was entered to compete at the 201lb heavyweight limit.

Wladimir, who was struggling to make his weight, took over the super-heavyweight slot and went on to win the gold medal.

"Their dream was to go to the Olympics and win gold medals together," said Vitali Klitschko's spokesman, Bernd Boente
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treelover said:
Does anyone know what Russian public opinion is on the events in Ukraine or aren't they allowed to have one?
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They're too busy queueing for the weekly potato and bottle of vodka ration.

The Russians I know on facebook seem gaily unconcerned with the whole thing. Their major issue is management changes at the St. Petersburg State University.
 
Delroy Booth said:
I think you're underestiming Russia's potential. If Russia were as powerless and dysfunctional as this then the US wouldn't spend so much time and effort trying to weaken them and engage in these destablising proxy wars like in Syria or Ukraine. If Russia was as much as a basket case now as it was under control of Yeltsin/IMF then the US would be much more relaxed about all this.

Its the threat that Russia is re-emerging from it's post soviet malaise as a serious world power once again that motivates. The US is an empire in long-term delcine, and they see nations like Russia and China as waiting in the wings patiently for this decline. They will use their military and political superiority now whilst they have it to slow down this decline, rather than wait for the superiority gap to be narrower.

Likewise the Russian military might not be at the level the Soviet Union's military was, but it's still 2nd only to the United States. It's still not something that be written off. And also worth pointing out that conventional military power doesn't actually count for much when it comes to this, nuclear brinkmanship is what a conflict between the USA and Russia would involve and that's not something that really depends on tanks and troops and so on.
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I have close relatives in er, special forces, I bet they are being 'reconfigured' as we speak
 
Delroy Booth said:
I've been lurking on some of the fascist and neo-nazi webforums and this is exactly what they're saying.

Anyone who saw the Polish independence day celebrations this year will know that the potential for this to spread to the rest of the former soviet bloc is very real.
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links?
 
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