I'm surprised I have to make this comment, a longish one at that, but what I said throughout is "to do with what were talking about here". The other day, I think before any news sources were linked on this thread, given the Ukrainian nationalism expressed, I applied general knowledge & speculated that some Israeli state managers may want to fly Judaic Ukrainians out of the country to Tel Aviv airport, then onwards to a colony in eastern Palestine. That scenario has been a consistent part of Israeli state planning & practice since 1948, & that is nothing new to most readers here. Ethiopia was more recent but the policy originated with respect to North Africa & Iraq.
It was others who posted links to events concerning Judaic Ukrainians (ethnicising & religioising-ethnicising processes are not one of my central interests), & in this thread I have commented on a number of kindly linked pieces, including on the topic in hand. It was you yourself who linked to a Jewish Chronicle article about 'zhids', & we all know about the associated discussion in Britain: many, many Tottenham fans proudly call themselves & their club yids, they celebrate the word, but some national commentators (Baddiel, for example) have argued in effect that the word is necessarily anti-Judaic & can never be used in the neutral or affectionate or celebratory way that we have witnessed with, for example, 'nigger' & 'queer'.
Given your link I simply made the point that if any Judaic Ukrainians feel they have to leave I would prefer they came to Britain rather than a colony in eastern Palestine. I'm surprised you find that opinion "annoying" - I, in fact, find this political possibility annoying, not least for Judaic Ukrainians, who up until the other month didn't have their lives disturbed by such attention.
Opinions expressed here concerning possible outcomes of Ukraine's political turmoil have included opposition to the growth of nationalism of any sort. My opinion concerning whether citizens stay in the country or not is of that order, neither more nor less. It is rational & reasonable to offer an opinion on the future of all Ukrainian citizens, including those who identify as Jews or are, unfortunately, castigated as one even if they do not self-identify that way.
Lastly, please also note it was not me but brogdale who yesterday afternoon (page 31) linked to the Guardian carrying an excerpted translation from the 3rd largest Hebrew-language daily, Maariv:
"A Ukrainian rabbi has urged Kiev’s Jews to leave the city and even the state. Rabbi Moshe Reuven Azman,
told Ma’ariv, an Israeli newspaper:
"'I told my congregation to leave the city center or the city all together and
if possible the country too. I don’t want to tempt fate. But there are
constant warnings concerning intentions to attack Jewish institutions.'
"Edward Dolinsky, head of the umbrella organization of Ukraine’s Jews described the situation in Kiev as
dire, told Maariv 'We contacted Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman requesting he assist us with
securing the community there.'"
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...l-live-updates#block-5308c041e4b04f22a42ea07a (3:27pm; my emphases)
You also linked yesterday evening (page 34) to this item from an Israeli outlet:
"[the protests] have led to a worrying
upswing in violence against Ukrainian Jewry [. . ., &]
the Ukrainian police forces - who are loyal to Yanukovych - have been making open
threats against
the Jewish community.
"They [the police, or at least some policemen] have also been promoting anti-Semitic propaganda.
"Recent reports indicated that
extremists have been targeting [dead link, unfortunately]
the Jewish community.
"Anti-Semitism in Ukraine has picked up throughout the unrest, which began in late November. In January, unknown assailants
stabbed a hareidi man [another dead link] in Kiev as he was making his way home from synagogue on a Friday night earlier this week,
anti-Semitic graffiti [it works: 6 Feb] was sprayed on a Holocaust memorial in the city of Alexandria.
"Last year, the president of the All-Ukrainian Jewish Congress narrowly escaped with his life after
a bomb was hurled at his car [dead link] as it pulled out from an office."
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/wap/Item.aspx?type=0&item=177727 (my emphases)
I placed emphases to draw attention to the general & homogenising nature of the report. Importantly it is consistent with the politics of 'the new anti-semitism', a politics that is being used to bolster support for Judaic-Israeli supremacism throughout the former Mandated Palestine. Also please note no evidence was offered that the stabbing & bomb incidents were motivated by anti-Judaism; one can suspect, one can assume, but we need to recognise this. (The 6 Feb report indicates at least a public unity of Ukrainians in Alexandria: "Many residents, Jews and non-Jews alike, reacted in anger, demanding that authorities track down the perpetrators and deal with them harshly".)
The source, which you didn't remark on, is Arutz Sheva (Hebrew for 'Channel Seven'), going under the equally benign web addy, israelnationalnews.com. It's based in eastern Palestine, in a Judaic colony (Beit El, Hebrew for 'House of God'), & is the principal mouthpiece for so-called religious Zionism, the neo-Zionism of the post-1967 colonists. It also produces a free newspaper delivered to 150 000 homes. Not surprisingly it was founded & still run by a religious skool, not surprisingly named Beit El Yeshiva, on the north-east edge of Ramallah. Its own English-language website has the definitive strapline, 'The Torah World Gateway'. What beckons beyond the gate, the consequences of this colonising project, is unlikely to ever be benign.
What concerns me not least in all this reporting is the extent to which Judaic Ukrainians have been subjected to slighting & the threat & exercise of violence. Crucially, how many incidents have occurred, & how many have been publicised? What is the evidence supporting (1) the good rabbi's call to
his congregation - the Guardian journo's alarmism misrepresented him - "to leave the city center or the city all together and if possible the country too", & (2) Dolinsky's appeal to the Israeli Foreign Minister "requesting he assist us with securing the community"? Precious little has been publicised so far.
As far as Spiney goes, please be polite, there's no need for arrogant bravado & vacuous threats. You speak as a controller, like a state official such as a policeman, & you neither have that role nor power. Please don't assume, ascribing to me meanings that are not intended; rather, if something strikes you as untoward, just be normal: please do the polite thing & simply inquire. No need for aggression. I think I had succeeded in expressing myself in the way I intended, & re-reading my comments of the last day I believe I have. So please discard the maligned view you have of what I said & instead take it for what it is, aided by my above elaboration.
And Spanky asks rhetorically, "Not keen on the Jews are you?" Please see, not least, my final point below. Truth is I'm not keen on homogenising groups of people, but as you ask, as much as any other group of religioised or ethnicised peeps - so neither more than less - and I malign none. The language of "the Jews" is alien to me; in fact Shlomo Sand has marshalled interesting evidence & offered a series of arguments countering the idea & existence of 'a Jewish people' or 'a Jewish nation', focusing instead on (1) the political project (a religioising-ethnicising kind of supremacism over Mandated Palestine) to advocate such a thing, & (2) the political project of convincing those linked to Judaism, believers or not, that they should primarily live as religioised &/or ethnicised people of the Jew kind; & we can contrast this with the Christian kind, the Brit kind, or the alleged pure untainted Ukrainian kind. As Max Blumenthal has put it on his current tour promoting 'Goliath', many of the advocates of Jews constituting a people are living high on the ziocaine flowing from J positive blood.
A final, general, point. As we know, tone of voice & facial expression is lacking from our medium, so let's all be generous in how we interpret what is said. Sometimes how we interpret is clouded by previous encounters, & what is currently said is placed within that, rather than in the present conversation.
I fear the black hand of barking at work here.
