Ukraine

[camouflage]

wtf is this 'space pirate' thing about?

It's an apronism, nobody knows what it really means but my own theory is it's something to do with apron and his cabal having a problem with me having read science fiction. From what I've been able to glean people who have read science fiction are not supposed to participate in political threads.

I quite like the idea of being a pirate, for a laugh I adopted "space pirate" as legend (after apron refered to me as 'space man', because I have admitted to reading a science fiction book, so fair play) until I can think of a better one, i usually change legends every few days anyway... but I've been quite lax recently.

 

[Nylock]

Thanks for clearing that up

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yeah I know, I just read about it. Someone on the telegraph comments said that Putin could be trying to buy time in order to heighten his support of the rebels until after the elections.

Well, there's certainly nothing new to deploying a "wait and see" tactic. If he wants to annexe bits of Ukraine then an all-Ukraine election will point up which regions there's a greater likelihood of pro-Russian support in/where they might be able to just walk in, Anschluss-stylee.

 

[camouflage]

Well, there's certainly nothing new to deploying a "wait and see" tactic. If he wants to annexe bits of Ukraine then an all-Ukraine election will point up which regions there's a greater likelihood of pro-Russian support in/where they might be able to just walk in, Anschluss-stylee.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Rather than just contributing a smiley, some accompanying words would go down well.

 

[camouflage]

Rather than just contributing a smiley, some accompanying words would go down well.

No... no need. I'm sure youre right. Expressing approval for elections in Ukraine probably really is all an elaborate scheme by Adolf Putin to seize more territory Anschluss style.

 

[butchersapron]

No... no need. I'm sure youre right. Expressing approval for elections in Ukraine probably really is all an elaborate scheme by Adolf Putin to seize more territory Anschluss style.

What, would you say, has been your contribution to this thread?

 

[ViolentPanda]

No... no need. I'm sure youre right. Expressing approval for elections in Ukraine probably really is all an elaborate scheme by Adolf Putin to seize more territory Anschluss style.

1) I expressed no approval.
2) If elections happen, do you really thinking that the polling in different areas isn't going to be significant intelligence to any plans Russia makes or has made?

Try engaging your brain before indulging your fondness for smileys next time, eh?

 

[ViolentPanda]

What, would you say, has been your contribution to this thread?

Quoted because cami-knickersouflage has you on ignore, supposedly.

 

[camouflage]

What, would you say, has been your contribution to this thread?

Oh no... am I being found insufficiently contributive in the great struggle against Adolf Putin!?

1) I expressed no approval.
2) If elections happen, do you really thinking that the polling in different areas isn't going to be significant intelligence to any plans Russia makes or has made?

Try engaging your brain before indulging your fondness for smileys next time, eh?

Ffs. Smileys are just so much more efficient in light of the above.

 

[butchersapron]

Oh no... am I being found insufficiently contributive in the great struggle against Adolf Putin!?

This sums up your contribution nicely. Thank you. Adolf Putin.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Oh no... am I being found insufficiently contributive in the great struggle against Adolf Putin!?


Ffs. Smileys are just so much more efficient in light of the above.

So you won't mind if I misrepresent your posts as blithely as you've just misrepresented mine, then?

Fair enough!

 

[butchersapron]

Some more on polling (this was groundwork done 3/4 weeks ago):

4. 46% say there is a risk of a civil war in Ukraine, 32.7% believe such a risk doesn’t exist. In Donetsk and Luhansk the figures are 55.9% vs 26.5% and 51.9% vs 24.1% respectively. Overall, a higher number though believes that the biggest threats to Ukraine are the risk of widespread banditry and the collapse of its economy. About 15% see separatism as a major threat.


5. In terms of what steps respondents expect from government in order to preserve the unity of the country:

Disbandment of illegal radical groups 37.8%
Economic measures to support the regions 22.4%
Dialogue with Russia 23%
Become a federal state 11.8% (20% in Donetsk and Luhansk, where 17% also see the introduction of a second state language as critical).
Early presidential elections 17.6%, parliamentary elections 14.5%


6. Only 11.7% support the recent capture of administrative buildings in their region by pro-Russian groups (a minority even in Donetsk - 18.1% - and Luhansk - 24.2%). With the exception of Luhansk, across all surveyed regions these types of actions are seen as not, and never, justifiable by a majority of respondents

 

[ViolentPanda]

This sums up your contribution nicely. Thank you. Adolf Putin.

Yes, such a great contribution, because mentioning the Anschluss can only be a reference to Hitler, rather than a reference to the relative ease with which Germany was able to annexe Austria due to the complicity of parts of the state apparatus and the population.

 

[camouflage]

Quoted because cami-knickersouflage has you on ignore, supposedly.

I don't, I want apron to put me on ignore and do us both a favour.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes, such a great contribution, because mentioning the Anschluss can only be a reference to Hitler, rather than a reference to the relative ease with which Germany was able to annexe Austria due to the complicity of parts of the state apparatus and the population.

I don't know why you bother with him mate. Just laugh him off.

 

[camouflage]

So you won't mind if I misrepresent your posts as blithely as you've just misrepresented mine, then?

Fair enough!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Some more on polling (this was groundwork done 3/4 weeks ago):

I find the percentages of people worried about economic collapse and banditry interesting, given the relatively-unprotected status of the majority of Ukraine's population from the slings and arrows of outrageous capitalism. By this, I mean that given how near they've existed to such states in the last 20+ years, then one might infer from those percentages a fear that's qualitatively-deeper than it reads on the page, so to speak.

 

[camouflage]

I don't know why you bother with him mate. Just laugh him off.

Yes, laugh me off. I am obviously a complete joker and clown for suggesting (out of the blue and for no reason whatsoever) that VPs reference to the Anschluss equates Putin with Hitler or his policies in anyway. twat.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I don't know why you bother with him mate. Just laugh him off.

You know me. I'm an optimist.

 

[DairyQueen]

Some more on polling (this was groundwork done 3/4 weeks ago):

Not sure I would trust a poll in Ukraine, certainly in Donetsk and Luhansk, under the circumstances. You would really need to disssect it a bit further in light of what as happened. For example, would Russian sympathisers trust (or answer differently to) the Kiev Institute of Sociology. Not doubting their integrity, but an interesting article looking at how Ukrainians respond to framing is needed and response rates more generally before I would trust any poll.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes, laugh me off. I am obviously a complete joker and clown for suggesting (out of the blue and for no reason whatsoever) that VPs reference to the Anschluss equates Putin with Hitler or his policies in anyway. twat.

It's your view of the whole thing that allows you to says adolf putin - not that little piece. It's so childish - and this isn't a game.

 

[DairyQueen]

Yes, laugh me off. I am obviously a complete joker and clown for suggesting (out of the blue and for no reason whatsoever) that VPs reference to the Anschluss equates Putin with Hitler or his policies in anyway. twat.

For what its worth, I think comparing Russia's and Russians' actions with those of Nazi Germany is pretty senseless.

 

[camouflage]

This sums up your contribution nicely. Thank you. Adolf Putin.

You sum up my contribution as you wish, below is an image of all the fuck I give:

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes, laugh me off. I am obviously a complete joker and clown for suggesting (out of the blue and for no reason whatsoever) that VPs reference to the Anschluss equates Putin with Hitler or his policies in anyway. twat.

I'd have thought, given the mention of how "they might just walk in, Anschluss-stylee", the context was pretty obvious, i.e. a "soft" annexation based around the fact that elements of the regional state apparatus and the local populations facilitated it.
If you're so historically-ignorant that the first thing that springs into your mind on mention of the Anschluss is Hitler, then take that up with the idiot who purported to teach you history, or with yourself for being an ignoramus on the subject.

 

[butchersapron]

Not sure I would trust a poll in Ukraine, certainly in Donetsk and Luhansk, under the circumstances. You would really need to disssect it a bit further in light of what as happened. For example, would Russian sympathisers trust (or answer differently to) the Kiev Institute of Sociology. Not doubting their integrity, but an interesting article looking at how Ukrainians respond to framing is needed and response rates more generally before I would trust any poll.

Well, it's what we have at the minute and was carried out on the ground in the east - i think part of would be making the host pollers unknown. It does tally with past polling - that is, large distrust of new govt, large support for united ukaraine (diff set up though) minority support for annexation. I'm sure they can get things wrong - but wrong by that much? To get things wrong by 40%+?

 

[camouflage]

It's your view of the whole thing that allows you to says adolf putin - not that little piece. It's so childish - and this isn't a game.

ffs. I'm not the one making wild comparrisons with the Anschluss... 'Adolf Putin' refers to the contempt I feel for this sort of simplistic equivalence. Might play over on CNN or FOX News or whatever but my point is precisely that it's a ridiculous thing to say. Let alone the idea that whatever the 'enemy president' does or says is obviously an elaborate scheme toward evildoery.

 

[ViolentPanda]

For what its worth, I think comparing Russia's and Russians' actions with those of Nazi Germany is pretty senseless.

Isn't it fortunate that I didn't do that, then?

 

[ViolentPanda]

For what its worth, I think comparing Russia's and Russians' actions with those of Nazi Germany is pretty senseless.

Isn't it fortunate that I didn't do that, then?

 

[butchersapron]

ffs. I'm not the one making wild comparrisons with the Anschluss... 'Adolf Putin' refers to the contempt I feel for this sort of simplistic equivalence. Might play over on CNN or FOX News or whatever but my point is precisely that it's a ridiculous thing to say. Let alone the idea that whatever the 'enemy president' does or says is obviously an elaborate scheme toward evildoery.

Astonishing - your whole contribution has been rejecting simplistic equivalence - i.e you picked one side. Now own it. Own the political simplicities that this entails.