Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
The bbc reporter talking about the peaceful protesters getting hurt by the Ukrainian police, as a peaceful protester on full waffen SS uniform wanders past.
You have to laugh.
Ukraine
- Thread starter Zabo
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You have to laugh.
Mustn't grumble
Member
Mossad & the airlift peeps are already there arranging a Magic Carpet operation straight to eastern Palestine: from maligned for being Jews to maligned for being colonists. Why can't life be simple?
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Source please?
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
Someone elsewhere on the web is already using that post as their source
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
I'm not sure there would be anything in organising a "rescue" operation for the Israeli state at all. There have been violent demonstrations against immigrants in Tel Aviv, (and now attacks against reform/masorti synagogues by fundamentalists) there is also a serious problem with integrating the Russian/Eastern European population from the former soviet union (as mentioned before with neo-nazis and so on). It might play well with elements of diaspora Jewry (who don't have a vote on deciding what policies Israel should adopt) and a few right-wing russian immigrants, but to be adopted by the state, nah, can't see it. Israel is overcrowded and socially divided as fuck as it is, I can't see them shelling out a few million pounds for a "rescue" operation to Ukraine
so, filing under "bollocks until proven otherwise"
so, filing under "bollocks until proven otherwise"
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Huh. A colleague of mine posted this on facebook:
"After weeks of responding peacefully to arrests and beatings by the riot police, many Ukrainians had had enough. A fraction of the protesters, some but by no means all representatives of the political right and far right, decided to take the fight to the police. Among them were members of the far-right party Svoboda and a new conglomeration of nationalists who call themselves the Right Sector (Pravyi Sektor). Young men, some of them from right-wing groups and others not, tried to take by force the public spaces claimed by the riot police. Young Jewish men formed their own combat group, or sotnia, to take the fight to the authorities."
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/mar/20/fascism-russia-and-ukraine/
This is outrageous:
"The history of the Holocaust is part of our own public discourse, our agora, or maidan. The current Russian attempt to manipulate the memory of the Holocaust is so blatant and cynical that those who are so foolish to fall for it will one day have to ask themselves just how, and in the service of what, they have been taken in. If fascists take over the mantle of antifascism, the memory of the Holocaust will itself be altered. It will be more difficult in the future to refer to the Holocaust in the service of any good cause, be it the particular one of Jewish history or the general one of human rights."
So if you point out the presence anti-semitic fascists in the Maidan protests, you are an anti-semitic fascist. Amazing.
"After weeks of responding peacefully to arrests and beatings by the riot police, many Ukrainians had had enough. A fraction of the protesters, some but by no means all representatives of the political right and far right, decided to take the fight to the police. Among them were members of the far-right party Svoboda and a new conglomeration of nationalists who call themselves the Right Sector (Pravyi Sektor). Young men, some of them from right-wing groups and others not, tried to take by force the public spaces claimed by the riot police. Young Jewish men formed their own combat group, or sotnia, to take the fight to the authorities."
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/mar/20/fascism-russia-and-ukraine/
This is outrageous:
"The history of the Holocaust is part of our own public discourse, our agora, or maidan. The current Russian attempt to manipulate the memory of the Holocaust is so blatant and cynical that those who are so foolish to fall for it will one day have to ask themselves just how, and in the service of what, they have been taken in. If fascists take over the mantle of antifascism, the memory of the Holocaust will itself be altered. It will be more difficult in the future to refer to the Holocaust in the service of any good cause, be it the particular one of Jewish history or the general one of human rights."
So if you point out the presence anti-semitic fascists in the Maidan protests, you are an anti-semitic fascist. Amazing.
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Mustn't grumble
Member
my imagination - based on what has happened since 1948, & by other agencies since the early 1880s. (I wasn't being that serious, by the way.)
There are a number of Jewish landmarks in Kyiv & its outskirts, not least Babi Yar, so the thugs may pay them a visit - if they haven't already.
I was surprised that perhaps there are as many as 18000 Judaeo-Ukrainians living in Kyiv. (But like any ethnicised group, especially a religioised one, what does one have to be to enter the fold? Father's side too? Converting? Self-identifying? The mark of one grandparent? A great-grandparent, just 12.5% J+ blood (Max Blumenthal)? Unfortunately the source given here is silent on the matter.)
http://www.jpeopleworld.com/index.php?dir=site&page=country&subj_cs=4755
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J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Yes, I read that earlier, absolutely astonishing. Also I have heard about a Jewish group in Euromaidan being mentioned whenever the neo-Nazi elements of the grouping are mentioned but I'm yet to see any proof of it whatsoever.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Is there any news on what has happened to the 67 policemen captured earlier by Right Sector?
Mustn't grumble
Member
no, but I hear they're having a great BBQ in the Square tonite.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Some bits from the BBC website live news feed this afternoon that give some hints about tensions within the establishment, possible shifts in support, coups etc:
Thats not to mention all the events that have been happening away from Kiev, including announcements of autonomy by various regions.
Thats not to mention all the events that have been happening away from Kiev, including announcements of autonomy by various regions.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
He's also clearly not bothered about what an emboldened (and probably larger, as they gain credibility from quite clearly being the organisers and foot soldiers of the 'defence') far right will get up to after.
Also, while you'll find few black and white thinkers on here (CR being an exception - though to be fair he's been pretty close to the truth on this one) and we often disagree with each other, there is one thing around which I think there probably is a black and white consensus - and that's that people... who... type... like... this... are... always... utter... fuckwits...
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Can't say I find any humour in that whatsoever, tbh.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
World Service clarifying this now. They were not police as we know them. They were young conscript soldiers that form part of a kind of 'home guard'.
Poor fuckers.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Yeah that makes a lot of sense to me - especially as I imagine a lot of Jews in Ukraine are very poor.
Mustn't grumble
Member
you don't like gourmet porc, then? With honey sauce? No?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
anyone got any clue as to just why our media won't report on the nazi nature of these protestors? Ilike to think I'm savvy to media motivations but this ones left me stumped. Surely neo-nazi insurgents would sell papers, get airtime, be worth their time to report.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
It's mad isn't it. Although I have heard twice on Sky News today a brief mention of far-right involvment. One saying that they were 'National Socialists', and the second time simply describing them as 'nationalist'. I've no idea why more isn't being said on this issue.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
I'm not really sure either. It's not like it's gone totally unmentioned though, there have been a couple of articles in the Guardian and a mentioned on Channel 4. All I can guess at is that once you've mentioned the fact that DC and Brussels are backing neo-Nazis then that would undermine the basis on which a lot of your journalism is predicated on.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
They are, yeah. No way is Israel going to do a 'rescue' mission like that, there isn't the resources, popular opinion would be dead against it, and Ukraine has something like the 5th biggest Jewish population in the world, with a lot of extremely poor people
Not the best source IMO but:
https://www.wjr.org.uk/where-we-work/ukraine/
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Stop being a penis, it's not big and it's not clever.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Grim picture coming from a discussion on WS now. Good discussion, btw.
A discredited president, and protesters on the street who are not under any control of the opposition. Protesters also protesting from many different positions. Confusing picture atm, even to Ukrainians.
A discredited president, and protesters on the street who are not under any control of the opposition. Protesters also protesting from many different positions. Confusing picture atm, even to Ukrainians.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Half the country want to look east, half to look west. There appears to be little common ground. Could get very ugly. The right-nationalists who are looking west sound very scary, with talk of reviving 'Ukrainian-ness'.
sunny jim
A pikey fluffy type
The reason the fascist involvement isn't being reported is because this is geopolitics going on, with the west wanting to gain territory in eastern Europe and turning a blind eye/giving support to the shock troops who are doing their bidding. Why would they want to mess that up by acknowledging their shock troops are fascists. That's my opinion anyway.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Can you link this?
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