Ukraine

[pocketscience]

You find it it bizarre. Ok, that's sorted then. Back onto fascists vs communists. Idiot.

They're the leading group, the one defending everyone else in the pics. Is that bizarre? Just by chance? They weren't put there as being recognised as the best fighters to represent this group? You're fucking desperate - they are open fascists. You've been applauding them. You've tried every wriggle in the book to get them off the hook. Don't. You look like a cunt defending fascists.

Anti-fascists oppose fascists. Learn that.

Show me where I've been aplauding them and defending them.

 

[frogwoman]

Here's what the anti fascist defenders say about the EU:

(Anyone want the link, pm me BTW)

 

[butchersapron]

Show me where I've been aplauding them and defending them.

Ok, so you're rejecting them right? The pro-russians?

 

[Casually Red]

Just been looking on the russian/eastern Europe section of a well known far right site. There seem to be no shortage of people supporting Russia there, in fact there's a big thread on it

This guy Pavel Gubarev was involved in the first protests in Donetsk

He is shown here wearing the uniform of the Russian National Unity party (around during the 90s)

yeah, Gubarovs political past after the soviet unions break up was raised by myself a number of pages back, thats from about 20 years ago. Did you just not know his politics these days, the party hes elected to represent, or did you just not bother to mention it, saying how it might be a bit relevant ? just a tad

 

[pocketscience]

You make me proper sick.

You're making yourself sick.
You seem to have an acute case cognitive dissonance with mild tourettes.

 

[butchersapron]

You're making yourself sick.
You seem to have an acute case cognitive dissonance with mild tourettes.

I hate fascists.
Here is some fascists i like, i support them even, i hope they meet their aims, i support them, not to do so means that you support fascists.

Dissonance?

Just step back and say that you were unaware of the fascists that you were supporting and now that you don't and you'll do a bit more research than listening to to a knob saying fascist on the internet.

 

[pocketscience]

Ok, so you're rejecting them right? The pro-russians?

Just show us where the fuck I've been applauding and defending "them". While your at it please tell me who "them" may be.

 

[Casually Red]

Here's what the anti fascist defenders say about the EU:



(Anyone want the link, pm me BTW)

are these people actually involved in the protests ? or are they just some fascists posting stuff on the internet ?
I dont see the relevance tbh
virtually every fascist group in europe opposes the EU. Even the ones that took part in pro eu riots in Ukraine, egged on by EU ministers.

 

[butchersapron]

Just show us where the fuck I've been applauding and defending "them". While your at it please tell me who "them" may be.

The step back. I wasn't supporting no one by going on and on about a fascist state guv and the duty to resist it, it's all in yer head.

You fucking coward. At least CR will stand and fight. Fuck off.

 

[frogwoman]

http://jn1.tv/breaking-news/rossiya-24-hosts-says-jews-brought-on-holocaust.html

Did anyone see this BTW? Apologies if its already been posted.

 

[frogwoman]

A host from Russian-state television channel Rossiya 24 has, during an interview, made comments that are sure to enrage the Jewish community across Europe and beyond. Evelina Zakamskaya suggested that Jews brought the Holocaust on themselves. Zakamskaya was interviewing hawkish writer Aleksandr Prokhanov.

Aleksandr Prokhanov:

"It's strange that these Jewish organizations - European and our Russian ones - support the Maidan. What are they doing? Don't they understand that with their own hands they're bringing a second Holocaust?"

Evelina Zakamskaya:

"And it wouldn't be the first time they brought it either."

 

[butchersapron]

Standard fare on RT discussion programs. "question everything"

 

[pocketscience]

The step back. I wasn't supporting no one by going on and on about a fascist state guv and he duty to resist it, it's all in yer head.

You fucking coward.

I do support the resistance to an unelected fascist government who are leashing a full scale military operation on its own soil. I support the right of ukrainian citizens to defend themselves against that. There I said it. Nothing cowardly about that.
Your assumption that by doing that I support and defend these dozen or so fascists that may or may not be associated to that resistance just highlights the cognitive dissonance you're suffering from.

 

[frogwoman]

That Odessa drugina site has 'Odessa - Russian city' on every page.

That's not anti fascism, that's irredentist Russian nationalism

 

[butchersapron]

I do support the resistance to an unelected fascist government who are leashing a full scale military operation on its own soil. I support the right of ukrainian citizens to defend themselves against that. There I said it. Nothing cowardly about that.
Your assumption that by doing that I support and defend these dozen or so fascists that may or may not be associated to that resistance just highlights the cognitive dissonance you're suffering from.

Yes, there's 12 of them. Head screwed on. Crack on. What could go wrong.

That was some mighty military operation in Odessa yesterday mind. Almost enough to make you big up/redefine a march by fascists. Sorry. Celebration.

 

[frogwoman]

http://odessa-antimaydan.com/10-otlichij-kievskogo-majdana-i-doneckoj-oga/

Ten differences between the Donetsk protesters and the maidan ones - there aren't any homeless people at the Donetsk protests for example

 

[pocketscience]

Yes, there's 12 of them. Head screwed on. Crack on. What could go wrong.

That was some mighty military operation in Odessa yesterday mind. Almost enough to make you big up/redefine a march by fascists. Sorry. Celebration.

So using your logic, you're a supporter and defender of right sector.

 

[butchersapron]

That's been made clear on here numerous times. (Did you object- did you fuck?)

 

[frogwoman]

http://m.aljazeera.com/story/2014416145823826439

Dunno if this has been posted yet.


Who the fuck do people think identifying anti fascism with the Russian state helps by the way?

 

[butchersapron]

So using your logic, you're a supporter and defender of right sector.

In what way is your characterisation of the kiev govt as fascist not a call to support 'anti-fascist' pro russians. That needs an answer.

 

[frogwoman]

The same cannot be said of those invited by Russia to "observe the referendum". The choice was clearly limited since Ukrainian and international election watchdogs had refused to recognise a "referendum". Those who turned up were Russia's far-right (or neo-Stalinist) allies.

Russian TV channels reported the essentially full stamp of approval provided by this "team of international observers". These included at least two members of the radical right-wing populist Freedom Party of Austria: Aymeric Chauprade, adviser on international issues for the French National Front; Belgian Luc Michel, former neo-Nazi FANE member and now member of an extreme right party, as well as two compatriots from the far-right Vlaams Belang; two members of the Bulgarian far-right Ataka Party; Hungarian Bela Kovacs from the far-right Jobbik party,and others.

Some of the above-mentioned and others are members of the Alliance of European National Movements which issued a statement on Ukrainethat effectively drops its former ally, Ukraine's VO Svoboda Party and sides with Russia.

 

[butchersapron]

Prepare for all the 'i'm against them too' stuff, they only make up 20% of the protests. Cowards.

 

[frogwoman]

On this website there has been discussion after discussion about not writing off people's concerns about immigration, not laughing at/labelling people as fash for having bad teeth or whatever, but people are seemingly happy to write off all the protesters in the Ukrainian side as fascists? What about for example the trade unionists etc on the maidan who were intimidated from the protests by fash - does that intimidation mean they went over to the Russian side? What about if you know someone who got shot in Kiev or you had to leave Crimea because of intimidation etc?

The right sector already gained credibility because of their willingness to fight the government - if people persist in this fucking dangerous idea of calling all opposition to the Russian state fascist and identifying it with the government who do you think that is helping exactly?

 

[Casually Red]

http://odessa-antimaydan.com/10-otlichij-kievskogo-majdana-i-doneckoj-oga/

Ten differences between the Donetsk protesters and the maidan ones - there aren't any homeless people at the Donetsk protests for example

and theres no nazis or nazi banners as another example,which is a pretty relevant difference given your insistence theyre nazis or somesuch.

no praying every 15 minutes either

i never knew the presence of the homeless was necessary to assert the non fascist credentials of a protest. I do however see it relevant to point out quite a few maidan residents werent there for political reasons at all but for free food, shelter and heating in the dead of winter. Hell, Barbara Nuland was personally handing out free cake. The point being theyd have been there too if Fidel Castro was orgainising the coup instead .

 

[frogwoman]

In case there's any doubt what that flag represents (once again I am not saying all the Russian protesters are fash, but you cannot deny that there is a significant fash presence)

This is a rally in 2011 by right wing Russian nationalists (what's that flag in the middle I wonder, did it just get there by mistake?)

More here http://politicalhotwire.com/current-events/59997-russian-far-right-fight-power-2.html

 

[frogwoman]

This is Donetsk

More here:http://anton-shekhovtsov.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/russian-and-pro-russian-right-wing.html

 

[frogwoman]

A Nazi in the Donetsk Republic separatist movement

Так называемые "Борцы с фашизмом и бендерами" в "…:

 

[Casually Red]

On this website there has been discussion after discussion about not writing off people's concerns about immigration, not laughing at/labelling people as fash for having bad teeth or whatever, but people are seemingly happy to write off all the protesters in the Ukrainian side as fascists? What about for example the trade unionists etc on the maidan who were intimidated from the protests by fash - does that intimidation mean they went over to the Russian side? What about if you know someone who got shot in Kiev or you had to leave Crimea because of intimidation etc?

The right sector already gained credibility because of their willingness to fight the government - if people persist in this fucking dangerous idea of calling all opposition to the Russian state fascist and identifying it with the government who do you think that is helping exactly?

i havent seen anyone do that though. Thats a complete strawman your creating . There were plenty of valid reasons for people in Ukraine to protest. The system there stinks now and stinks then . But what happened later wasnt a protest, it was a bloody western backed coup . Nobody started referring to fascists on here until actual fascists appeared on the scene and took the lead . Or until fascist politicians were installed after a coup in a western backed junta. And it is most definitely a junta now, utterly reliant on massive displays of armed force against its own population to enforce its illegal writ.

The only people Ive seen referred to as fascists the entire way through this are actual fascists. The thugs rampaging through the streets of various cities in their thousands attacking passersby and burning people to death . The militias eager to do the dirty work of suppression the Ukrainian military have no stomach for. The far right paramilitaries, the far right politicians , Banderites and genocide deniers . Nobody else .

The far right did not gain any credibility with the people whos elected choices they overthrew. A major part of their credibility lies in the fact theyve been proclaimed by the leaders of the western world and its pet media and Ukrainian oligarch media as freedom fighters .That theyve been empowered by a junta that relies on them . With the political rehabilitation of nazism thats been going on there for years. And I dont see anyone else in Ukraine making any vocal or organised stand against them except the people manning the barricades against them. The people being demonised not only by the entire western political and media class but quite a few on here too .

 

[frogwoman]

'Ukrainian nationalists'

Another interesting article here (although I am not sure about their portrayal of Svoboda)

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117556/putins-russia-using-ukrainian-jews-propaganda-tools

One term in particular encapsulates the absurdity and irony of the alleged Jewish-ultranationalist alliance: zhidobanderа, a portmanteau that combines the Russian slur for Jews (zhid) and Stepan Bandera’s last name. The term seems to have originated in February, when it was used by tetushki—the for-hire thugs that Yanukovych’s regime used to intimidate protesters on Maidan—to refer to the protesters. Given that Russia and much of Ukraine still remembers Bandera for murdering Jews rather than for fighting for Ukrainian independence, zhidobandera is a mind-bending oxymoron that implicates Jews as murdersome anti-Semites.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2014/0428/Amid-crisis-Ukraine-s-Jews-say-leave-us-out-of-it

This time, they are inquiring about a video showing pro-Russia separatists in the nearby industrial city of Slovyansk promising to end “zombie Zionist” broadcasting, now that the separatists have taken over the local television station.

'Zionism', lol.


Here's yet another video showing the associations between the monarchist flag and the 'antifascist' st Georges ribbon and the extreme right: (some people are wearing this in the video)
Православный фашизм в России.:

 

[frogwoman]

Is this enough evidence for you pocketscience sunny jim?

By the way the euromaidan protesters also used antifascist imagery, for example by superimposing a swastika onto a Russian flag, presumably that means that they were all anti fash as well. Posters like this were stuck up where the Kiev protests were going on

Being an anti fascist means you are against fascism, you don't make exceptions.