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As well he might be, I orginally said "you're not a Putin bum-licker" and then took offence at it. I've read his posts too I don't actually disagree with him on any of this and I can't be arsed working out exactly what i've said that has hurt is feelings so, and I equally can't be arsed having a long and pointless argument over "is Putin's Russia a fascist state" especially as in the short answer we'd both probably come to is "no"

It's not the idea of licking bums itself that I take massive offence to, and actually what is this nonsense? It's more annoyance and frustration with regard to the fact that it was a childish, smarmy, sideways remark implying that I'm some sort of CR-type idiot who supports the Russian government, and importantly, what it followed from. It's not the first time you've behaved this way. You post on a thread, some point of discussion, and when someone replies you all of a sudden very quickly decide that it's not productive to the thread and so end of. Don't make 'authoritative' posts about things you don't have much of an understanding of (or appear to), and when I suspect in some cases you get flustered, decide what can and cannot be discussed.

This is a robust place and bullshit gets called as well as insults. I'm no precious little thing (I've been called worse and given worse back). Furthermore, it seems to be the nature of particularly long threads for them to go off in several directions (sometimes at once), to take little detours, but which can add to and arrive at parts of the main topic being discussed (the nature of the Russian government is very much on-topic). If that's the last of this silliness then I'm glad, I'll hold my hand up to being childish earlier and you can have the final word (call me a rude name if you want), but you made a poor judgement of me like on the recent DPRK thread, another subject you've liked to pronounce on but seem to be poorly-read. I enjoy reading the Syria thread and your contributions but before it I hardly knew fuck all about that society and the politics involved, so don't post. You need to unpick that arrogance I'm afraid.
 
It's not the idea of licking bums itself that I take massive offence to, and actually what is this nonsense? It's more annoyance and frustration with regard to the fact that it was a childish, smarmy, sideways remark implying that I'm some sort of CR-type idiot who supports the Russian government, and importantly, what it followed from. It's not the first time you've behaved this way. You post on a thread, some point of discussion, and when someone replies you all of a sudden very quickly decide that it's not productive to the thread and so end of. Don't make 'authoritative' posts about things you don't have much of an understanding of (or appear to), and when I suspect in some cases you get flustered, decide what can and cannot be discussed.

This is a robust place and bullshit gets called as well as insults. I'm no precious little thing (I've been called worse and given worse back). Furthermore, it seems to be the nature of particularly long threads for them to go off in several directions (sometimes at once), to take little detours, but which can add to and arrive at parts of the main topic being discussed (the nature of the Russian government is very much on-topic). If that's the last of this silliness then I'm glad, I'll hold my hand up to being childish earlier and you can have the final word (call me a rude name if you want), but you made a poor judgement of me like on the recent DPRK thread, another subject you've liked to pronounce on but seem to be poorly-read. I enjoy reading the Syria thread and your contributions but before it I hardly knew fuck all about that society and the politics involved, so don't post. You need to unpick that arrogance I'm afraid.

Well can I just say one last time I don't think you're a CR-type idiot, a far-right sympathiser, a Putin bum-licker, or any of these kinds of things, I sincerely apologise if that's the impression you got. Sometimes it's hard to keep track and if I unwittingly lumped you in with those clowns I take it all back. I don't want to have a long and discursive convseration on "Is Russia a Fascist state" because it's not one I'd find very productive and it would further derail an already fucked up thread, it wasn't important or crucial to the point I was trying to make, and if you desperately want to have a debate on that topic please start a thread somewhere else where you can do so.

I don't claim to be some sort of authority on this, I made a few brief comments outlining my general idea of Putin's Russia to counter this strange notion that Putin was some kind of brave socialist heroically fighting fascism when in actual fact I view the conflict as being between two types of nationalism and not a fascist vs anti-fascist one. I wasn't attempting to make a comprehensive analysis of the ideology of Putin's Russia, just a very basic one that any half-informed casual observer could make. I'll happily accept you know the ins and outs of the relationship between Putin and the far-right in Russia in greater detail than I do, but I wasn't interested in having a detailed discussion on that point, I had a different point to make one that doesn't need that level of detail.

Now I've said this to you a number of times both on here and via PM, and you still seem persistent in going over it again and again, so excuse me if I take the "I'm no precious little thing" line with a pinch of salt because you've done a good impression of one so far. I know these threads go on little detours, but that's not a detour I'm personally interesting in going on with you, sorry but that's just the way is it. You can't conscript me into having a long drawn out discussion on this issue when there's other more pressing things I'd like to spend my time talking about.

I've tried to retract the things you've found objectionable as any reasonable person would, but other than my general "tone" I'm still not fully sure what they are, and I'm not interesting in a long drawn out argument with you. What more do you actually want from me? You said it was my "snotty tone" well I promise you it wasn't intentional and I can't really be held accountable if you take offence at something as vague and subjective as that, I can assure you it wasn't intentionally done to annoy you.

Likewise on the DPRK thread I'm sorry I didn't get back to you in good time with a list of recommended reads of current North Korean military doctrine and so forth, I have a big file full of poorly organised pdf's which i've been accumulating for years which is where the stuff I was referring to there could be found, now unfortunately I'm not Butchersapron and I'm not retainer to upload you a collection of the appropriate pdf's at the drop of a hat, I have thousands of the buggers it'd take me hours to fish out the particular file I need, I'd have to re-read the damn things to be able to get you exact sources in that level of detail and believe it or not I do have a life and I can't actually commit to doing that at the drop of a hat. I know more about Korea than I do Ukraine so at some later point we'll get back round to discussing it perhaps?
 
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Wolfgang press - saw them blow the pixies off stage at the height of the pixies greatness.

edit: too late.
Really that good? Never heard of them I'll have to check them out now.

Again I don't think a long and semantic argument over "To what extent is Russia a fascist state" does much to help our undertstanding of why they're acting the way they are, and it's relevance to Ukraine, so I would rather not. I've made my opinion clear on what type of state Russia is and I think it's an honest and accurate assessment. I don't particularly care if that quick assessment on a message board looks "clichéd" because I think it's pretty much right.
Eh, surely analysing the various elements at play in Russia (by discussing to what extent is the Russian state fascist/autocratic/etc) we'll get a better understanding of what dynamics are at play in the Ukrainian situation. Fine if you not interested in it but to argue that the internal dynamics of Russia aren't related to what's happening in the Ukraine seems daft.
 
Really that good? Never heard of them I'll have to check them out now.

Eh, surely analysing the various elements at play in Russia (by discussing to what extent is the Russian state fascist/autocratic/etc) we'll get a better understanding of what dynamics are at play in the Ukrainian situation. Fine if you not interested in it but to argue that the internal dynamics of Russia aren't related to what's happening in the Ukraine seems daft.

How many times do I have to say that I wasn't trying to write a fucking treatise on the Russian state and it's relationship to the far-right I was making a different point, and I'm not in the slightest bit interested in going on and on and on about it just because some bloke's got the hump and won't let it drop over some incredibly petty percieved slight? You want that conversation? Knock yourself out. I bow out. I've already asked Seventh Bullet to PM me rather than fucking post all this on the forum, cos now it's all about ME ME ME instead of about the issue at hand, but nope, so here we fucking are same shit different day fucking wasting my time as per usual.

And the worst bit is if I did try and answer his points at any length I'd get butchers apron or some other gobshite whinging at me for writing essays and going on too long, so whatever I do I'll get a fucking hard time off someone. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Can't win! What a waste of fucking time! Jesus christ I wish I was still on drugs my Friday nights were so much better back in the day.
 
Remember insulting me first? Seriously go fuck yourself you utter prick

Hahaha are you going to get around to addressing the posts where I went through how out of touch you were with popular opinion in Eastern Ukraine or are you just going to sit here and call me names and duck the questions I (and others) have put to you?

I figure the latter you sweaty dildo
 
[QUOTE="Fuchs66, post: 13092963, member:
Because I have seen little proof for this (and please don't start a link marathon to RT or similar media)


translation, there arent any fascists in the kiev regime and dont be posting evidence to the contrary
1. Yes there is much resistance to the IMF's austerity measures but this has been triggered by years of mis-management and bad governance so the amount of blame to be put on the present occupants of government buildings is somewhat limited.

theres an alternative to imf austerity programmes,which destroy countries. Theres many billions in Russian loans, concessions, subsidies and trade deals. Ukraine doesnt need the IMF and there was no talk of the IMF until the putsch overthrew the government and plunged Ukraine into chaos.
2. Neo-nazism and connections with the above occupants is a worrying factor and should not be ignored or accepted however the scale of this is hard to assess when working through the propaganda from both sides as I stated above

But you will ignore it and demand people dont post evidence of it
3. CIA connection again hard to assess due to lack of information in open media, to state the level of interference (while no doubt it is there) with the conviction that some do is pure speculation.

CIA director Brennan was in Kiev just the other day before the onlsaught restarted . Weve listened to Nuland outline the billions the USA have already spent bringing democracy to Ukraine. Watched her supporting the coup on the streets and afterwards picking the government beforehand .

this is pretty major interference, this is a coup being openly advised and supported beforehand. They never even tried to hide it .


mccain-1.jpg


nuland-in-ukraine.jpg
 
it feels almost like I'm talking from the mid 70s to say it, but afaik the NATO class planes that could contest incursions are far better than the Russian MiG variants. But russia has loads of them, whereas NATO not so many of its typhoons, eurofighters whatever available. Or the pilots to fly them.

I am going on fear and half remembered data though.

The raw numbers don't tell the story. In terms of "force elements at readiness" (ie aircraft that work and have competent crew available to operate them) NATO would, in contrast to the 70s, now enjoy at least a 2:1 advantage. Not only due to technical superiority but also due to the fact that NATO is bigger now as most of the WarPac nations rather ungratefully switched sides as soon as they shrugged the yoke of communism.

Also the game has moved on a lot since the height of the cold war and NATO is much more adept at the exploitation of "force multipliers" such as AEW&C2, ISTAR, AAR, SIGINT, EW, SEAD and other deadly abbreviations forged in the white heat of PowerPoint presentations.
 
John Kerrys gone right over the edge now :D



I wonder what his username is on here. I was going to say its spooky how so many lefties on this site are so consistently on message with him every step of the way. But really its more pathetic.
 
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The raw numbers don't tell the story. In terms of "force elements at readiness" (ie aircraft that work and have competent crew available to operate them) NATO would, in contrast to the 70s, now enjoy at least a 2:1 advantage. Not only due to technical superiority but also due to the fact that NATO is bigger now as most of the WarPac nations rather ungratefully switched sides as soon as they shrugged the yoke of communism.

Also the game has moved on a lot since the height of the cold war and NATO is much more adept at the exploitation of "force multipliers" such as AEW&C2, ISTAR, AAR, SIGINT, EW, SEAD and other deadly abbreviations forged in the white heat of PowerPoint presentations.
swarm though. The nazis thought they could take on all comers cos they had the tastiest gear but numbers won out
 
Russian jets have entered Ukrainian airspace.


i appreciate your keeping us up to date. But I think in particular after the US government used fake pictures of supposed Russian tank columns, and now has released fake pictures of Russian special forces in the past few days pretty much anything they report of that nature needs taken with some major doses of salt .
 
A Hind helicopter gunship was blown up on the tarmac of Kramatorsk airport. Conflicting reports as to whether it was hit with an RPG or whether a sniper hit something combustible .



guys taking the video seem to think its hilarious
 
A Hind helicopter gunship was blown up on the tarmac of Kramatorsk airport. Conflicting reports as to whether it was hit with an RPG or whether a sniper hit something combustible .



guys taking the video seem to think its hilarious


Because of the way they were filming it they must have known it was about to blow! Fair play to them!!
 
swarm though. The nazis thought they could take on all comers cos they had the tastiest gear but numbers won out

The Russian air force has about 60 combat squadrons. That makes it about the same size as the air component of the US Navy (to which it is vastly inferior in both equipment and doctrine) never mind the US Air Force (100+ squadrons) and the rest of NATO (at least another 100). Not all of that could be simultaneously deployed but certainly enough to achieve a raw 2:1 numerical advantage could.

E2A: One advantage the Russians certainly have is that NATO has zero political will to sustain anything other than the lightest casualties. In contrast the Russians have always enjoyed and celebrated feeding their young men into the meat grinder in large numbers.
 
This has opened up a big can of worms and I think the US and EU might well come to the conclusion that the West of Ukraine maybe isn't worth all this after all. I wouldn't hold my breath though.
Make your mind up. A couple of weeks ago you were saying it would be worth every penny
Don't worry about the debt of the Ukraine I suspect that hardly even figures into it. the EU doesn't care if Ukraine is paralysed with austerity to pay the IMF, as long as it's in their sphere it'll be worth every penny.
 
Since the holocaust memorial was desecrated with neo nazi slogans Ive been keeping an eye for a while on some of the fascist provocations and harassment going on in Odessa

just a flavour of it here.





 
that building appears to have been their hq





but it seems the locals had enough and moved them on. This guy and a few other anti fascists were sporting soviet army uniforms. On the 70th anniversary of Odessa liberation from the nazis they cant be accused of having no sense of occasion



 
The raw numbers don't tell the story. In terms of "force elements at readiness" (ie aircraft that work and have competent crew available to operate them) NATO would, in contrast to the 70s, now enjoy at least a 2:1 advantage. Not only due to technical superiority but also due to the fact that NATO is bigger now as most of the WarPac nations rather ungratefully switched sides as soon as they shrugged the yoke of communism.

Also the game has moved on a lot since the height of the cold war and NATO is much more adept at the exploitation of "force multipliers" such as AEW&C2, ISTAR, AAR, SIGINT, EW, SEAD and other deadly abbreviations forged in the white heat of PowerPoint presentations.


Where are you getting these numbers?
 

To be honest an awful lot of demonstrations have far right elements on them, even in this country - I went on several demos against Israel in 2008, many of which had a significant number of people on them who were openly antisemitic - does that mean everyone else on the demo was a 'useful idiot' for fascism? Likewise during the large anti cuts demos several of such people also turned up, the EDL also got involved in bedroom tax stuff - does that mean everyone else there was an idiot and a fascist? You have to be REALLY careful with this stuff, not being funny but if you just blanketly call people fascists you are actually undermining anti fascism, there are very real reasons why people were protesting against Yanukovich which had absolutely nothing to do with the far right - by labelling stuff entirely far right you actually make it easier for the fash to take this kind of thing over
 
Since the holocaust memorial was desecrated with neo nazi slogans Ive been keeping an eye for a while on some of the fascist provocations and harassment going on in Odessa

just a flavour of it here.

Can you actually explain what exactly is going on in any of those videos?
 
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