Ukraine

[Casually Red]

I still don't see any connection to what I wrote.

Oh while we're playing the post random links up here's a couple back:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Anna_Politkovskaya
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Markelov
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalia_Estemirova

then youre willfully blind

my links were far from random either

 

[Fuchs66]

then youre willfully blind

my links were far from random either

No you appeared to be trying to make a point regarding a different matter entirely on the basis of what I said so that you could shout from your little internet soapbox, as if we hadn't all been made very aware of your opinions already.
And mine weren't random either.

 

[Casually Red]

soapbox....ffs

 

[ViolentPanda]

This is from LiveLeak.com the link wouldn't work for some reason so its a copy and paste of the article

BREAKING: German state tv blames ukraine opposition for massacre at maidan

Seven weeks after the deadly gunfire in Kiev, that discharged the government of president Victor Janukowitsch, there are many indices, that the official version about the Maidan happenings are very probably untrue. According to inquiries of the WDR-magazin Monitor (german state tv ARD), it is very unprobably, that the government was responsible for the gunfire on demonstrants. Last week the Attorny General and the coup regime of Ukraine blamed the Berkut-units for the massacre. According to the police, 12 members of this unit were arrested and will accoused for mass murder.
Now, the german state tv asked a senior member of the investigation team on maidan massacre, who denied the allegations of ukraine coup regime. "My findings are disagree with official statements by government and attorny-generalship", he said to Monitor.
There are also audio recordings of radiocommunications between snipers by president Janukowitsch who were stationed on the roofstops in the centre of Kiev. The conversations between the snipers were recorded by a radio ham:
"Who is shooting?", asked a member another sniper.
"The man was shot dead by someone, but not by a member from us.", answered the other member.
Then the same member asked the other sniper: "Are there more snipers? Who are they?"

Gunfire out of Hotel Ukraina
According monitor, there are videos, which show demonstrants, how they were fired not only from the direction of government facilities but also from direction of the Hotel Ukraina, that was in the back of the demonstrants. According to an eyewitness, who was on that day near the hotel and also near government facilites, he confirmed the happenings. "Somebody fired at us in our back, from the eigth or ninth floor of the Hotel Ukraina. They were surely professional's." Many journalists resided there and the hotel was completely in the hands of opposition member's. In the morning of 20 th. Febr. the hotel let only poeple in the facility who had a key for a room.

Advocates have no information's
According to advocates by family member's and wounded demonstrants they blamed the attorny generalship. They have no information's about the happenings. "We didn't heard, which guns were used, we have no access to surveys, we got no plan's of actions by Berkut-units, no investigation papers.", a victim said. "We can't say, what happened and can't also approve the version's of attorny generalship (Svoboda). One advocate said: "The generalship don't investigate in correct ways. They protect their member's, they are partisan like in the soviet union."

The complete report about the ARD-investigation will published at this evening in the first german state tv.
Monitor is one of prominent investigation-programs by german tv, which revelated scandals about the NSA, intrrnational slavery by big fashion producers and


Read more at

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

Mmm, shotgun cartridges. Not a sniper's ammo of choice.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If they were spying on you and you knew about it, they can't be that great spies. This is the image I have of your trip to Moscow.

TBF, there are more ways than one of intelligence agencies doing their job. Making you believe that you're a "person of interest" is one of them. It makes the individual paranoid, and seldom costs more than scrutinising passort for an over-long length of time, and having some schmuck cod-ineptly follow you for 5 minutes. Result!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Dillinger4 Oh by the way we just had a request from our guys back in Langley, apparently the camera hidden in your TV isn't delivering a clear picture could you maybe clean the screen? Thanks

Have you any idea how hard it is to get crusted spunk off of a tv screen? Dillinger4 has.

 

[pocketscience]

I have to deal with Russians on a daily basis at work (nothing governmental - the company I work for has a large subsidiary in Moscow).
To a certain extent, I experience the same shit with my Russian colleagues that Fuchs has mentioned. They can be an extreme PITA when negotiating budgets or certain quality issues we've had with them. You always have the feeling they're trying to pull a fast one and it did my head in at first.
The fact is, after 8 years with the same Russian colleagues, they still come up with the same shit BUT! they've never pulled a fast one. Their curiosity (and pride) may predict some of their cultural behaviour but, they've proven to be very competent and trustworthy colleagues and we've developed a great working team over the years.
On the other hand, when I compare the Russians to some of the attitudes of say the French or Germans that I have to work with, the Russians are actually quite refreshing and although they keep me on my toes which can be tiring, to be honest, they're much more fun to go out for a beer with than the Franco/ Teutonics in my team.

My dad's an example (east-ender born 2 years before the start of ww2, evacuated away from his parents to Wales, returns 7 years later to a devastated bomb-site), harboured a deep hatred for Germans for decades. It was quite an experience watching his transition of attitude over the last 20 years that I've lived in Germany. The breaking point being my Mrs (German) and the arrival of our first child. He wasn't sure what to make of having a german grandchild but after coming over here a couple of times to visit, he's fallen in love with the place and the people..

So, my point... we can continue talking about Russians as a bunch of untrustworthy, stupid, paranoid whatevers but, that won't change anything for the better. I think Putin does sum up the national psyche to a certain extent but, I don't buy the wests scaremongering that that poses any threat.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes

There was me thinking it was more a reflection of a very small minority within the "national cultural identity" of the UK, to whit: Posh ruling-class douchebags and their fellow-travellers.

 

[Fuchs66]

On the other hand, when I compare the Russians to some of the attitudes of say the French or Germans that I have to work with, the Russians are actually quite refreshing and although they keep me on my toes which can be tiring, to be honest, they're much more fun to go out for a beer with than the Franco/ Teutonics in my team.

Completely agree with that point

 

[ViolentPanda]

OK the comparison with the Sun may have been a bit OTT I was basing my opinion on the style of reporting which despite the awards is somewhat sensationalist and that the one story I had some involvement with (Chemical Weapon destruction in Munster) was a pile of shite so full of inaccuracies that it became laughable.
E2A and I was pissed when I posted

Ah, glorious Munster, I can think of few places more deserving of a CW detonation, except perhaps Paderborn.

 

[pocketscience]

There was me thinking it was more a reflection of a very small minority within the "national cultural identity" of the UK, to whit: Posh ruling-class douchebags and their fellow-travellers.

I agree (for any government of any nation). My point was that each goverment (i.e ruling-class douchebags) do try to reflect their nations cultural character.

 

[Fuchs66]

Ah, glorious Munster, I can think of few places more deserving of a CW detonation, except perhaps Paderborn.

Lived there for about 18 years (Talking about Munster(lager) here not Münster btw). It isn't so bad (easy to get to Hannover, Hamburg and Bremen) and enabled me to get into the line of work I'm in now

 

[Fuchs66]

I agree (for any government of any nation). My point was that each goverment (i.e ruling-class douchebags) do try to reflect their nations cultural character.

Hmmm but I get more the impression that the current UK Govt reflects their own idea of what the nations cultural character should be rather than the reality. (As do many other governments including Putin's)

 

[8ball]

'Surrender talks' are apparently going on with the separatists at the moment. Not sure how those talks are going but there are reports of a gunfight between groups of civilians* and a few people dead...

* - some dispute over this bit

 

[pocketscience]

Hmmm but I get more the impression that the current UK Govt reflects their own idea of what the nations cultural character should be rather than the reality. (As do many other governments including Putin's)

I did use the word try (to reflect...).
just as much as, say the queen trying to reflect the cultural character of a middle class english granny rather than say a chinese one. How much they pull it off is another matter.

 

[sunny jim]

Mmm, shotgun cartridges. Not a sniper's ammo of choice.

Really, never knew that

 

[ViolentPanda]

Really, never knew that

Yes you did.
Still a daft pic to feature in an article about an investigation into snipers, wouldn't you say?

 

[Casually Red]

according to this the fash shot up a protestor checkpoint near Slayvansk, killing three and wounding several . The protestors were then backed up by their own gunmen, who killed 2 fash. They claim to have recovered from the fash vehicles aerial photos of a tv tower thats been seized by protestors which now permits Russian tv to be broadcast . And that may have been the fashes intended target before they started shooting people.

Also appears the kiev junta are now calling on the Berkut to come back and rejoin them . Which if true sounds very much like desperation at this point .

http://rt.com/news/slavyansk-checkpoint-shooting-killed-640/

 

[Fuchs66]

I did use the word try (to reflect...).
just as much as, say the queen trying to reflect the cultural character of a middle class english granny rather than say a chinese one. How much they pull it off is another matter.

OK point taken

 

[sunny jim]

Yes you did.
Still a daft pic to feature in an article about an investigation into snipers, wouldn't you say?

Of course I did. As long as you're not saying because the photo from the LiveLeak link is a daft it means the whole story is incorrect? Because that would be silly.

 

[laptop]

Of course I did. As long as you're not saying because the photo from the LiveLeak link is a daft it means the whole story is incorrect? Because that would be silly.

That would indicate a certain degree of carelessness, wouldn't it?

A disdain for whether things were true or not, quite likely.

 

[Diamond]

according to this the fash shot up a protestor checkpoint near Slayvansk, killing three and wounding several . The protestors were then backed up by their own gunmen, who killed 2 fash. They claim to have recovered from the fash vehicles aerial photos of a tv tower thats been seized by protestors which now permits Russian tv to be broadcast . And that may have been the fashes intended target before they started shooting people.

Also appears the kiev junta are now calling on the Berkut to come back and rejoin them . Which if true sounds very much like desperation at this point .

http://rt.com/news/slavyansk-checkpoint-shooting-killed-640/

Truly, you are a wonder to continue to rely on RT as a news source of record in the current conflict.

Is provenance an alien idea to you?

 

[sunny jim]

Truly, you are a wonder to continue to rely on RT as a news source of record in the current conflict.

Is provenance an alien idea to you?

This is the type of shite the Guardian have been posting on their website, making out these fascist thugs are protesting for democracy.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/apr/17/ukrainian-rebel-fighters-maidan-video

The same video was posted on the Right Sector's FB page with fascists crowing about it
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pravyi-Sektor-English-International/235980666595205

So going by that, if you dont want your news to be neo nazi apologism, substituting the Guardian for RT might be a good idea.

 

[sunny jim]

That would indicate a certain degree of carelessness, wouldn't it?

A disdain for whether things were true or not, quite likely.

You could base your thoughts on whether the story is true or not by watching the actual show Monitor, not what someone posted on LiveLeak about the show.

 

[Casually Red]

this is also some footage of the immediate aftermath of a mystery sniper targetting the RT crew in the midst of these killings. Anyone whos watched that sequence of events and the reaction of the crew to being targetted when they reported on it will be under no doubt it hadnt been faked. One round even grazed the bulletproof jacket of a cameraman. And in this instance the gunfire most definitely comes from a building that had been taken over by the coup forces, not from the Berkut.

 

[SpineyNorman]

This thread's turned a bit shit now

 

[Casually Red]

then maybe you could consider contributing a bit more to it than that

 

[DairyQueen]

This thread's turned a bit shit now

Nothing has changed, we are getting the Russians sabre rattling stories, the Americans have deployed Joe Biden, and apparently local oligarchs are creating militias. OSCE asking for more resources. Socialists wondering why no-one likes class politics any more. A bunch of shitty Putin jokes on Have I Got News for You.

I found this funny. This right-wing nutcase is annoyed at some tiny communist party in America. Funnily enough, that Brian Becker seemed to have got an interview on Russia Today. Gotta take your hat off to the marauding Ruskies here, nice troll attempt.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Nothing has changed, we are getting the Russians sabre rattling stories, the Americans have deployed Joe Biden, and apparently local oligarchs are creating militias. OSCE asking for more resources. Socialists wondering why no-one likes class politics any more. A bunch of shitty Putin jokes on Have I Got News for You.

I found this funny. This right-wing nutcase is annoyed at some tiny communist party in America. Funnily enough, that Brian Becker seemed to have got an interview on Russia Today. Gotta take your hat off to the marauding Ruskies here, nice troll attempt.

I think we should make it our job to get someone from proletarian democracy on RT - troll the fuck out of EVERYONE

WSWS is the next best thing though to be fair, they're kind of like PD only with an even more tenuous grip on reality.

 

[DairyQueen]

If you click on the link about militias, you gotta love this.

“I’ve been thinking a lot about events in Donetsk and Lugansk,” Deputy head of the Dnepropetrovsk region, Borys Filatov, wrote on Facebook. “There’s only one conclusion – this is a revolution of the poor, the rebellion of tired and desperate people, unheard by the government.”

“For each gun handed in there’s a payout: US $1,000 for an assault rifle, US $1,500 for a machine gun, and US $2,000 for a grenade launcher.”