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No you claimed that the intent of the Nazi extermination camps was the same as the Gulag. So either you must believe that that the death camps were not designed for the extermination of specie ethnic groups, or you must believe that the Gulug were designed for the extermination of specie ethnic groups. Alternatively you where talking rubbish and the intent behind them was very different.
I tell you what I'll quote my post highlight the bits I believe your selective vision has missed and then you can tell me about the bits you don't understand.

I would say that the Gulag and the German concentration camps bore many resemblances. The extermination camps were technologically, a level above anything that the Soviet Union came up with but the intents were similar, the basis for those intents varied somewhat that's all.

do you mean by "dispose of"?
To remove from society either by death, internal banishment or other means. The choice of method wasn't too critical however there were many thousands who were killed.
 
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Yeah it is, it's a lot to do with religion and past history as well, Greek fash tended to be pro Serb during the Balkan war because Serbia was another orthodox country, but Hungarian fash were pro Croatian mostly

not-bono-ever will know more
 
So the far right in Bulgaria are pro-Russia but the far right elsewhere in Eastern Europe are very anti-Russia because of the association with the old Soviet Union? This is all getting complicated.

I wouldn't say that all the eastern European fash/hard right were anti Russian. The Serbian radical party definitely aren't
 
The Famine Inquiry Commission (1945) documents a large number of administrative, civil policy and military policy failures. Significantly, no other famine-struck country has published such criticisms of its own government’s actions. The failure to set up a food administration in 1939 and prepare for rationing was the key failure. The failure to enforce an India-wide food policy with an equality of sacrifice was another. Without this, the administrative controls must prevent any meaningful intervention. Political and administrative failures to set up a system for seizing surplus food in surplus areas also contributed (it was acceptable in deficit areas). There were many others which added to local shortages or otherwise increased the death rate, (e.g. Boat Denial Policy, Rice Denial Policy, various purchasing policies) but were not causes of the famine. During the Famine Inquiry Commission's investigation, one official stated that 'We felt difficulty about one thing. That was lack of one co-ordinating authority at the time of famine'[64]

churchill was a racist but the Battle of the atlantic was raging at the time and while the food could have been got to india getting it too bengal was probematical at best. Like most famines their was plenty of food in the country but in the wrong place unlike the Nazis this was a massive cock up amd when Wavell used the military the problem was solved :(

the people responsible for a holocaust in Bengal investigated themselves, just as they did after the Irish one, and indeed Bloody Sunday in the 70s . Ive no doubt had Hitler been on the winning side any German investigation would have come up with similar conclusions about Europes jews .
 
I didn't say that the working class had nothing to do with it, I said that we have and had no say in state policy. :facepalm:

did they agree or disagree with it at the time though. That appears to be the crux of his beef. The evidence would point to a lot of agreement with it among a lot of people outside the corridors of power. And why short clean wars ...which tend to require a strong force overcoming a weaker force...have usually been vote winners.
 
the people responsible for a holocaust in Bengal investigated themselves, just as they did after the Irish one, and indeed Bloody Sunday in the 70s . Ive no doubt had Hitler been on the winning side any German investigation would have come up with similar conclusions about Europes jews .

You can see that with the genocide of indigenous people in the USA and Canada. If the Nazis had won maybe they'd be flying around helicopters called 'Jew' or 'Gypsy' like the Americans fly around Chinooks.
 
did they agree or disagree with it at the time though. That appears to be the crux of his beef. The evidence would point to a lot of agreement with it among a lot of people outside the corridors of power. And why short clean wars ...which tend to require a strong force overcoming a weaker force...have usually been vote winners.

What actual coherent, objective evidence of this do you have, I wonder...

When was the working class of Britain ever consulted about the Imperial policy of the British State in the period of establishment of empire, either in detail or in general?
 
What actual coherent, objective evidence of this do you have, I wonder...

When was the working class of Britain ever consulted about the Imperial policy of the British State in the period of establishment of empire, either in detail or in general?

I plainly never said they were consulted about. My post plainly referred to those outside the corridors of power. The British working class were overall quite proud of their empire though , despite having no say in its policies.
Perhaps we should all return to the thread subject and refrain from building such massive fuck off straw men.
 
I plainly never said they were consulted about. My post plainly referred to those outside the corridors of power. The British working class were overall quite proud of their empire though , despite having no say in its policies.

What you said (let's quote it again) was

...The evidence would point to a lot of agreement with it among a lot of people outside the corridors of power...

I'm just wondering what evidence you think exists about their agreement, and now their pride.

...Perhaps we should all return to the thread subject and refrain from building such massive fuck off straw men.

You seem quite happy to meander off the original thread subject when it suits you/when you get a chance to return to your particular monomania. Are you saying it's OK for you, but not for anyone else, or are you just, as I suspect, getting worried at being called on yet another sweeping assertion with nothing, apparently, to back it up?

Maybe the evidence does exist - I'd genuinely be interested if it does - but I strongly suspect it doesn't...
 
Because obviously a mass deportation carried out by communists is a wonderful adventure holiday:rolleyes:

Compare contrast
Solemn promise of a pioneer of the Soviet Union

I (surname, given name), having now joined the ranks of the All-Union Pioneer Organization "Vladimir Illich Lenin", in front of my comrades solemnly promise: to passionately love my fatherland, to live, study, and fight as bequeathed by the Great Lenin, as the Communist Party teaches, and always carry out the laws of the Pioneers of the Soviet Union.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth
Pledge of Allegiance
"In the presence of this blood banner which represents our Führer, I swear to devote all my energies and my strength to the savior of our country, Adolf Hitler. I am willing and ready to give up my life for him, so help me God."

Fucking hell that's desperate - the dib dib dib pledge I had to give at the cub scouts was pretty much the same.
 
What you said (let's quote it again) was



I'm just wondering what evidence you think exists about their agreement, and now their pride.



You seem quite happy to meander off the original thread subject when it suits you/when you get a chance to return to your particular monomania. Are you saying it's OK for you, but not for anyone else, or are you just, as I suspect, getting worried at being called on yet another sweeping assertion with nothing, apparently, to back it up?

Maybe the evidence does exist - I'd genuinely be interested if it does - but I strongly suspect it doesn't...

Maggie Thatcher had become pretty unpopular with them at one stage, having put millions of them out of work. Then she successfully defended a remote corner of what was left of the empire hardly anyone knew existed. She became popular all over again. Her defence of the empires tattered remnants even drew her plaudits from her opponents. She stayed in power for ages after that. In fact youll often see leftists on here bitterly defending her successful defence of an imperialist outpost.
Im surprised youre unaware of that frankly.

Now Id appreciate it if youd permit the thread to return to its original subject the rest of us were discussing. Which is Ukraine.
 
Maggie Thatcher had become pretty unpopular with them at one stage, having put millions of them out of work. Then she successfully defended a remote corner of what was left of the empire hardly anyone knew existed. She became popular all over again. Her defence of the empires tattered remnants even drew her plaudits from her opponents. She stayed in power for ages after that. In fact youll often see leftists on here bitterly defending her successful defence of an imperialist outpost.
Im surprised youre unaware of that frankly.

Now Id appreciate it if youd permit the thread to return to its original subject the rest of us were discussing. Which is Ukraine.

Oh dear.

If you go back to post 4792 (as you've previously liked it, I'm assuming you've you've read it) you will see that camouflage is referring to the establishment of the Empire.

Details like "red uniforms to subdue the Fuzzywuzzies and weild the Maxim Gun" and "taking from the Zulus or the Indians whatever they had" should make that abundantly clear, even to you.

So I'll simply draw the conclusion that you have absolutely no evidence to support any of your claims that the British working class as a whole were actively supportive of the establishment of Empire, and were instead indulging in your normal game of Brit-bashing.

Feel free to get back to telling us what Russia Today has to say about discussing Ukraine
 
Twitter claim that Russia will be invade Ukraine in 12 hours time. Vow CNN loosing plot.

I think there was a NATO commander was talking about Russia being able to invade or occupy Ukraine in 3 days. Might that explain the twitter pandemic?
 
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Maybe we can heat our homes with all the parping instead....

The United States on Wednesday called on Europe to wean itself from a dangerous dependency on Russian gas, saying it was time to stand together and bring an end to the Kremlin's use of energy supplies as political leverage.

Left unsaid was the European Union's reluctance to follow the United States headlong into shale gas extraction, which has transformed the global energy scene and turned the U.S. from importer into a nascent exporter. Or its refusal to fully re-embrace nuclear power in the wake of the Fukushima disaster in Japan.

And even if it tried to become independent, it would take Europe years to develop promising sources, such as shale deposits in Ukraine and Poland — and with no guarantees of success.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/eu-us-vow-help-ukraine-energy-independence
 
I watched Russian news apparently no mentioned about some kind invasion of Ukraine.

The NATO claim/fearmongering is not that an invasion will take place in 12 hours. It's that if someone gave an order to invade, it would start happening within 12 hours. Big difference.

It's a variation on Blairs 'Iraq could launch missiles within 45 minutes of receiving an order to do so' thang.
 
Yanukovich has given an interview opposing Crimean reunification with Russia, and stating had he been in power hed have opposed it . Hes also stated a point I made a few pages back. That these new elections are just a means to put a democratic sheen over a coup and the overthrow of a democratically elected government. But will only end up creating more instability throughout Ukraine, not ending it. Pointing to the rise in demonstrations against Kiev all over the East and South.
Hes arguing that there needs to be a referendum first to determine the nature of the Ukrainian state , and then an election as to whos most suited to administer it in whatever form the people decide.

http://rt.com/news/crimea-russia-tragedy-yanukovich-877/

Hes a scumbag but the points hes making in that regard are commonsense pretty much . If the coup continues on its current course further destabilisation is inevitable . Theyre banking on being able to suppress their eastern and southern populations effectively . Personally I dont think theyve a hope of doing that .
 
I tell you what I'll quote my post highlight the bits I believe your selective vision has missed and then you can tell me about the bits you don't understand.
There's nothing selective in my vision, you said that the intent of the Nazi death camps and the Gulag was the same you even quoted your own post saying this. And as Dairy Queen and Seventh Bullet have pointed out that is, at best, a stupid ignorant ahistorical generalisation. The intent behind the two was very different and to simply pretend that it wasn't trivialises such an issue.
 
There's nothing selective in my vision, you said that the intent of the Nazi death camps and the Gulag was the same you even quoted your own post saying this. And as Dairy Queen and Seventh Bullet have pointed out that is, at best, a stupid ignorant ahistorical generalisation. The intent behind the two was very different and to simply pretend that it wasn't trivialises such an issue.
3/10 go back and read it again!

E2A no I'll help you out again as you seem to be a bit slow:

I would say that the Gulag and the German concentration camps bore many resemblances.
I.e they weren't identical

the intents were similar, the basis for those intents varied somewhat that's all.
again similar does not equal identical
 
3/10 go back and read it again!

E2A no I'll help you out again as you seem to be a bit slow:

I.e they weren't identical


again similar does not equal identical
The intents weren't similar, the intent of Treblinka, Sobibor, etc was the systematic industrialised murder of human beings. That was something completely different from the intent of the Gulag, or other concentration camps, and to not distinguish between the two is not just wrong and stupid it's actually offensive.
 
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