Ukraine

[Fuchs66]

I think you were confusing the prisons with the cooperative system (based on the much smaller Vietnamese-taught 'solidarity production teams') in which most of the country's population was placed and where most deaths occurred (not through execution), and which underwent varying degrees of collectivisation. Let's not paint with big broad brush strokes when it comes to EVIL COMMUNISTS.

No I'm talking about Security Prison 21 (Tuol Sleng) and the approximately 150 other execution centres.

Most deaths in the Gulag weren't through execution either, it doesn't mean that the deaths through hunger, disease and neglect were somehow better, in the Gulag or in Cambodia.

 

[Fuchs66]

No I'm talking about Security Prison 21 (Tuol Sleng) and the approximately 150 other execution centres.

Most deaths in the Gulag weren't through execution either, it doesn't mean that the deaths through hunger, disease and neglect were somehow better, in the Gulag or in Cambodia.

Oh and I don't differentiate between mass murder committed by left, right or any other shade of politics.

 

[seventh bullet]

Quote from Gulag; Anne Appelbaum

Isn't Appelbaum a Pinochet apologist and neocon?

 

[Fuchs66]

Isn't Appelbaum a Pinochet apologist and neocon?

I found her work on the Gulag to be very interesting, I have no idea what her thoughts on Pinochet are.

E2A having just read this

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2000/12/the_real_shame_of_pinochet.html

I wouldn't say she is an apologist for him, she seems to have more problems with the way the whole thing was handled in the UK.

 

[rekil]

Isn't Appelbaum a Pinochet apologist and neocon?

She certainly is ignorant.

You may not like very much about Gen. Augusto Pinochet, but it is hard to dispute the fact that his decision to leave power and prepare the ground for democracy was the correct way to go: Without that, he'd simply be another 20th-century monster.

 

[seventh bullet]

No I'm talking about Security Prison 21 (Tuol Sleng) and the approximately 150 other execution centres.

Most deaths in the Gulag weren't through execution either, it doesn't mean that the deaths through hunger, disease and neglect were somehow better, in the Gulag or in Cambodia.

S-21 was the name given to the top-level prison and interrogation centre, of which the Tuol Sleng building was one 'unit.' Even so, the DK cooperative system or network of political prisons (not all were simply 'execution centres') wasn't simply like the Soviet Gulag system. I think we need to look at the various specificities. And where have I said that any of the rest was any better?

 

[Fuchs66]

Even so, the DK cooperative system or network of political prisons (not all were simply 'execution centres') wasn't simply like the Soviet Gulag system.

The results are pretty much the same.

If I shot you, or stabbed you, or suffocated you with a plastic bag I'm sure you'd be equally dead in every case.

 

[tim]

Because obviously a mass deportation carried out by communists is a wonderful adventure holiday

Compare contrast
Solemn promise of a pioneer of the Soviet Union

I (surname, given name), having now joined the ranks of the All-Union Pioneer Organization "Vladimir Illich Lenin", in front of my comrades solemnly promise: to passionately love my fatherland, to live, study, and fight as bequeathed by the Great Lenin, as the Communist Party teaches, and always carry out the laws of the Pioneers of the Soviet Union.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth
Pledge of Allegiance
"In the presence of this blood banner which represents our Führer, I swear to devote all my energies and my strength to the savior of our country, Adolf Hitler. I am willing and ready to give up my life for him, so help me God."

The oafs in authority wherever they are always go for more or less the same sort of bollocks


"I, [name], swear by Almighty God that, on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her Heirs and Successors according to law."


"

 

[seventh bullet]

The results are pretty much the same.

If I shot you, or stabbed you, or suffocated you with a plastic bag I'm sure you'd be equally dead in every case.

Go on... You're obviously very well read on the subject and don't generalise at all.

 

[Fuchs66]

Go on... You're obviously very well read on the subject and don't generalise at all.

Some generalisations can be made, the body counts are significant in all the mentioned cases, the details don't matter that much to the victims.

 

[DairyQueen]

It's Gulag, singular.

And as to the Stated aim that would to a large part depend on when as the Stated Aim varied somewhat depending on who was signing the orders. However we shouldn't judge the camps on the "stated aim of the Gulag" which was more often than not political whitewash, but rather on what actually took place within them.

Ah yes, but lets judge every OTHER prison system on their stated aims which are not a political whitewash?

 

[Fuchs66]

Ah yes, but lets judge every OTHER prison system on their stated aims which are not a political whitewash?

Again, where have I said that we should?

 

[seventh bullet]

Some generalisations can be made, the body counts are significant in all the mentioned cases, the details don't matter that much to the victims.

You're just doing that thing where if looking at it in a way which might contradict your own view it can be called apologism.

'Why are you talking like this? Look, lots of dead people. Don't you care about that?'

 

[DairyQueen]

Again, where have I said that we should?

You haven't. That is my point.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

I remember Galloway being a nob, but when exactly did he become this bat shit mental?

 

[Fuchs66]

You're just doing that thing where if looking at it in a way which might contradict your own view it can be called apologism.

'Why are you talking like this? Look, lots of dead people. Don't you care about that?'

Well it does sound like that sometimes

"They may be mass-murderers but hey I share some of their political viewpoints sooooo they can't be as bad as the mass-murderers from the other side!"

I really don't give a flying fuck what the political ideology is that has been twisted and abused to such a level that the only way of dealing with opposition is to murder them en-mass, all I am concerned with are the effects.

 

[Fuchs66]

You haven't. That is my point.

I would condemn any system that resulted in mass deaths.

 

[tim]

The German concentration camps bear resemblances with lots of different prison systems. In fact, a load of lefties write to that affect. My problem is that you choose to draw resemblances between this and the Gulag as opposed to others.

Other similar camps include those from the era of the British Imperial sunset. Strangely, gulags for black people seem upset people less than those for white people.

Stalin ,Pol Pot, And Hitler are long dead. The soldier in the picture, however, would have sworn allegiance to the then British head of state, who is, of course, still in office.

 

[seventh bullet]

Well it does sound like that sometimes

"They may be mass-murderers but hey I share some of their political viewpoints sooooo they can't be as bad as the mass-murderers from the other side!"

I really don't give a flying fuck what the political ideology is that has been twisted and abused to such a level that the only way of dealing with opposition is to murder them en-mass, all I am concerned with are the effects.

I think you're going to have to back that up I'm afraid. What exactly do I share with 'Stalinists' (the Cambodian interpretation of M-L doctrine needs looking at) in ex-Indochina?

 

[Fuchs66]

I think you're going to have to back that up I'm afraid. What exactly do I share with 'Stalinists' (the Cambodian interpretation of M-L doctrine needs looking at) in ex-Indochina?

I'm talking about appearances and if I'm wrong I'll be very quick with my apologies.

 

[seventh bullet]

I'm talking about appearances and if I'm wrong I'll be very quick with my apologies.

You should apologise quickly, then.

 

[Fuchs66]

Other similar camps include those from the era of the British Imperial sunset. Strangely, gulags for black people seem upset people less than those for white people.

Stalin ,Pol Pot, And Hitler are long dead. The soldier in the picture, however, would have sworn allegiance to the then British head of state, who is, of course, still in office.

Not just at the sunset of the Empire.

 

[Fuchs66]

You should apologise quickly, then.

Well if I have misunderstood your postings I apologise.

 

[DairyQueen]

Well if I have misunderstood your postings I apologise.

Quite an apology. "I understood you to be Stalinist and an apologist for Soviet oppression. If that was wrong, I apologise."

 

[Fuchs66]

Quite an apology. "I understood you to be Stalinist and an apologist for Soviet oppression. If that was wrong, I apologise."

I can only work with the 2 dimensional appearance I receive from postings, if that's how they appear I can't do anything about it. If however a poster then says that this is not the case I am more than happy to apologise.

What I don't do is make up shit and claim it to be the words of another poster.

 

[treelover]

BBC: Nato planning exercises with Eastern European countries

btw, never did find out who elected NATO

 

[likesfish]

The oafs in authority wherever they are always go for more or less the same sort of bollocks


"I, [name], swear by Almighty God that, on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her Heirs and Successors according to law."


"

Diffrence is those oaths are not taken by school kids who have no choice in the matter yes some schools have cadet forces but not every school.
The british state has not collapsed its evolved into a much better state.
The Soviets had high ideals unfortunatly the ideals in practice were bollocks.

 

[DotCommunist]

I remember Galloway being a nob, but when exactly did he become this bat shit mental?

he's been off the scale for a while now, have you not been watching 'Sputnik' on RT?

the clip provided is pretty dingbat even for gorgeouse though

 

[frogwoman]

I remember Galloway being a nob, but when exactly did he become this bat shit mental?

'More powerful coming from you'

Ugh.

Also what's happened to his accent?

 

[DotCommunist]

'More powerful coming from you'

Ugh.

Also what's happened to his accent?

it's the smirk that gets me. You know galloway is pleased with himself because he smirks when he is saying stuff. Except when he goes into full rant mode and starts doing the arm movements.