Ukraine

[Casually Red]

Did you listen to that thing before typing this? Of course it might be doctored but there's no way it means what you say.

It\s also perfectly possible that it's genuine and she's doing Tough Guy and then leaking it in order to play for the pissed-off nationalist vote, which fits with her glorifying of the Banderites in the Maidan, sorry EuroMaidan.

thats quite possible, she was very quick to verify its authenticity . While her mate was denying it . She certainly needs to do something to get people to overlook the fact shes an habitual tealeaf .

 

[Kesher]

Good article on Crimea here:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/25/crimea-cold-war-vladimir-putin-russia

 

[Casually Red]

the transnistrians claim to have shot down a drone which originated from Ukraine . Alleging it was spying on them . What Ukrainians want to spy on in Transnistria is anyones guess .

Anyways Im just watching a documentary here on the NATO onslaught against Serbia and Montenegro , which was 15 years today , launched in order to seperate the Serbian province of Kosovo from its national boundaries . Listening to Blair happily justifying the destruction of television and radio studios...and the workers inside them, civilian bridges, roads, pretty much anything that took their fancy . Schools, maternity wards...all sorts blown to pieces . Even the chinese embassy . Their list of what defines legitimate targets just widening to include everything. Ive stood in the middle of some of that destruction myself more than once .

The hypocrisy of these bastards still has the power to astound me 15 years later .

 

[ViolentPanda]

the point was , to anyone with a blind bit of wit, what effect would a fall out with Byelorussia, also a major trading partner with Ukraine, have on the regimes viability . And the overall situation that some of us are trying to get a handle on .

but no, yet again you wanted to sound clever in order to win on the internet ...ffs a grown man . And then spouted a load of irrelevant data of no interest . Yet again .

Take a look in a mirror some time.

 

[J Ed]

the transnistrians claim to have shot down a drone which originated from Ukraine . Alleging it was spying on them . What Ukrainians want to spy on in Transnistria is anyones guess .

Anyways Im just watching a documentary here on the NATO onslaught against Serbia and Montenegro , which was 15 years today , launched in order to seperate the Serbian province of Kosovo from its national boundaries . Listening to Blair happily justifying the destruction of television and radio studios...and the workers inside them, civilian bridges, roads, pretty much anything that took their fancy . Schools, maternity wards...all sorts blown to pieces . Even the chinese embassy . Their list of what defines legitimate targets just widening to include everything. Ive stood in the middle of some of that destruction myself more than once .

The hypocrisy of these bastards still has the power to astound me 15 years later .

Which documentary?

 

[camouflage]

the transnistrians claim to have shot down a drone which originated from Ukraine . Alleging it was spying on them . What Ukrainians want to spy on in Transnistria is anyones guess .

Anyways Im just watching a documentary here on the NATO onslaught against Serbia and Montenegro , which was 15 years today , launched in order to seperate the Serbian province of Kosovo from its national boundaries . Listening to Blair happily justifying the destruction of television and radio studios...and the workers inside them, civilian bridges, roads, pretty much anything that took their fancy . Schools, maternity wards...all sorts blown to pieces . Even the chinese embassy . Their list of what defines legitimate targets just widening to include everything. Ive stood in the middle of some of that destruction myself more than once .

The hypocrisy of these bastards still has the power to astound me 15 years later .

Some believe the murder of Jill Dando may have been a response to the NATO bombing of a Serbian news station in which journalists and other civilian personnel were killed.

 

[DotCommunist]

Some believe the murder of Jill Dando may have been a response to the NATO bombing of a Serbian news station in which journalists and other civilian personnel were killed.

police fitted up the local oddball based on fuck all as well. cunts.

 

[Idris2002]

police fitted up the local oddball based on fuck all as well. cunts.

Roger that. A professional hit done by someone who can barely dress himself?

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Interesting Pravda[.ru] article yesterday on Sashko Bily's killing.

Ukraine eliminates nationalists to please Europe

On the night of 24 March, employees
of the Central Directorate for
Struggle Against Organized Crime,
including members of Falcon, a unit
of special forces, were conducting a
special operation at "Three Carps"
café near Rivne. Three people were
detained in the operation; a
Kalashnikov rifle and a Makarov
pistol were withdrawn from them.
According to Evdokimov, Muzychko
jumped out of the window of the
café as soon as he heard police
officers shouting "Freeze!" and then
opened fire on Falcon soldiers. He
was wounded in the shootout and
was still alive when paramedics
arrived, but doctors could not save
him. The three detainees are
suspected of banditry.
Earlier, Muzychko published a video
on YouTube, in which he said that
the Office of the Prosecutor General
and the Ministry of Internal Affairs
of Ukraine "took a decision about my
physical destruction or my capture
and extradition to Russia."

 

[camouflage]

the transnistrians claim to have shot down a drone which originated from Ukraine . Alleging it was spying on them . What Ukrainians want to spy on in Transnistria is anyones guess .

Anyways Im just watching a documentary here on the NATO onslaught against Serbia and Montenegro , which was 15 years today , launched in order to seperate the Serbian province of Kosovo from its national boundaries . Listening to Blair happily justifying the destruction of television and radio studios...and the workers inside them, civilian bridges, roads, pretty much anything that took their fancy . Schools, maternity wards...all sorts blown to pieces . Even the chinese embassy . Their list of what defines legitimate targets just widening to include everything. Ive stood in the middle of some of that destruction myself more than once .

The hypocrisy of these bastards still has the power to astound me 15 years later .

Was it this one by any chance?

 

[Kesher]

Andy Martin (US Republican Activist) takes a beating on Cross Talk (RT); but somehow manages to keep on smiling. I almost felt sorry for him despite his breath taking ignorance

 

[J Ed]

Interesting Pravda article yesterday on Sashko Bily's killing.

Ukraine eliminates nationalists to please Europe

Wrong one

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Wrong one

edited

 

[DairyQueen]

Barry O.'s intervention.... America is the only global superpower, Russia is 'just' a regional power.

We [the US] have considerable influence on our neighbours. We generally don’t need to invade them in order to have a strong co-operative relationship with them

Except Mexico, Guatemala, Grenada, Cuba(attempted), Haiti, Nicaragua, Colombia, (probably) Venezuela, Panama, Haiti (again). Apart from them (and probably a few others). What an idiotic thing for him to say.

 

[camouflage]

Barry O.'s intervention.... America is the only global superpower, Russia is 'just' a regional power.



Except Mexico, Guatemala, Grenada, Cuba(attempted), Haiti, Nicaragua, Colombia, (probably) Venezuela, Panama, Haiti (again). Apart from them (and probably a few others). What an idiotic thing for him to say.

Wait a minute... what n00bie mistake is this, are you actually expecting knowledge of historical context from a Potus?

 

[Delroy Booth]

I'm sorry for not posting this up earlier but this is what John Mearsheimer has written about the conflict in the New York Times. It's particularly interesting because although he's a very right-wing realpolitick guy he's also against the US's actions in Ukraine, just as he was critical of the US war in Iraq, not on grounds of international law but on grounds of strategy. This is another good example where the right-wing and the left-wing actually end up coming to similar conclusions but with different rationale.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/14/opinion/getting-ukraine-wrong.html?_r=0

Two quotes stick out:

When Mr. Putin explained why he was playing hardball, Mr. Obama responded that the Russian leader “seems to have a different set of lawyers making a different set of interpretations.” But the Russian leader is obviously not talking with lawyers; he sees this conflict in geopolitical, not legal terms.

Mr. Putin’s view is understandable. Because there is no world government to protect states from one another, major powers are acutely sensitive to threats — especially near their borders — and they sometimes act ruthlessly to address potential dangers. International law and human rights concerns take a back seat when vital security issues are at stake.

Mr. Obama would be advised to stop talking to lawyers and start thinking like a strategist. If he did, he would realize that punishing the Russians while trying to pull Ukraine into the West’s camp will only make matters worse.

and

Some might say these policy prescriptions amount to a defeat for America. On the contrary, Washington has a deep-seated interest in ending this conflict and maintaining Ukraine as a sovereign buffer state between Russia and NATO. Furthermore, good relations with Russia are essential, because the United States needs Moscow’s help to deal with Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, and eventually to help counter China, the only genuine potential rival to the United States.

Which is a very interesting perspective and it's true - Russia might be being a bit more assertive than it was during the 1990's but it's not likely to be a long-term threat to U.S. power, that threat comes from China, which does have the potential to be a military and economic superpower on a par with and even superior to the United States.

 

[treelover]

In Obama's key note speech in Brussels he has just directly referred to the lessons of 1914 and 1939 in relation to Ukraine and Russia.

He also wants to maintain/rebuild NATO in Europe, may be connected to the putative EU/US free trade agreement.

 

[TomUS]

Listening to Blair happily justifying the destruction of television and radio studios...and the workers inside them, civilian bridges, roads, pretty much anything that took their fancy . Schools, maternity wards...all sorts blown to pieces . Even the chinese embassy .

Radio & TV stations were legit targets since they broadcast Milosevic propaganda. What's a civilian bridge or road? I really doubt schools & maternity wards were deliberately targeted. That sounds like the 'Saddam's troops stole incubators from Kuwait hospitals & left the babies to die on the cold floors' story from Iraq war I. And the Chinese embassy.....

According to senior military and intelligence sources in Europe and the US the Chinese embassy was removed from a prohibited targets list after Nato electronic intelligence (Elint) detected it sending army signals to Milosevic's forces.

The story is confirmed in detail by three other Nato officers - a flight controller operating in Naples, an intelligence officer monitoring Yugoslav radio traffic from Macedonia and a senior headquarters officer in Brussels. They all confirm that they knew in April that the Chinese embassy was acting as a 'rebro' [rebroadcast] station for the Yugoslav army (VJ) after alliance jets had successfully silenced Milosevic's own transmitters.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/oct/17/balkans

 

[J Ed]

Radio & TV stations were legit targets since they broadcast Milosevic propaganda. What's a civilian bridge or road?

Disgusting. Really showing your true colours here. Since the Kosovo War was illegal under international law, like the Iraq War, I take it that the offices of the NYT, Washington Post, CNN, the Guardian and BBC are legitimate targets too.

 

[TomUS]

Disgusting. Really showing your true colours here. Since the Kosovo War was illegal under international law, like the Iraq War, I take it that the offices of the NYT, Washington Post, CNN, the Guardian and BBC are legitimate targets too.

Yes they were broadcasting lies/propaganda & thus were legit targets.

 

[CNT36]

I'm sorry for not posting this up earlier but this is what John Mearsheimer has written about the conflict in the New York Times. It's particularly interesting because although he's a very right-wing realpolitick guy he's also against the US's actions in Ukraine, just as he was critical of the US war in Iraq, not on grounds of international law but on grounds of strategy. This is another good example where the right-wing and the left-wing actually end up coming to similar conclusions but with different rationale.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/14/opinion/getting-ukraine-wrong.html?_r=0

Two quotes stick out:



and



Which is a very interesting perspective and it's true - Russia might be being a bit more assertive than it was during the 1990's but it's not likely to be a long-term threat to U.S. power, that threat comes from China, which does have the potential to be a military and economic superpower on a par with and even superior to the United States.

Not a million miles away from what Kissinger.was saying in that link I posted a few days ago.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Yes they were broadcasting lies/propaganda & thus were legit targets.

They have now apologised for it.

On 23 May 2011, Radio Television of Serbia (RTS) issued an official apology for the way their programming was misused for spreading propaganda and discrediting political opponents in the 1990s, and for the fact that their programming had "hurt the feelings, moral integrity and dignity of the citizens of Serbia, humanist-oriented intellectuals, members of the political opposition, critically minded journalists, certain minorities in Serbia, minority religious groups in Serbia, as well as certain neighbouring peoples and states." RTS also stated in the apology that there was no doubt that the state media were under the direct control of the late President of Serbia Slobodan Milošević and that Serbian state media were used by Milošević as a war tool for inciting ethnic hatred and deceiving his people in order to get the support needed to continue waging war in the former Yugoslavia.[49][50]

 

[J Ed]

Yes they were broadcasting lies/propaganda & thus were legit targets.

Are we talking about the British and American media or the Serbian media? The media told a lot of lies on both sides, which is why Milosevic was tried for crimes committed AFTER NATO's illegal war on Serbia began. So would it have been ok for Serb paramilitaries to bomb CNN?

You are seriously saying that it is alright to murder people because they broadcast the view that they are against their country being bombed in an illegal war. Incredible.

 

[J Ed]

TomUS is the media that criticises and lies about healthcare in the US a legitimate military target? Their lies kill and cause far more suffering than Milosevic.

 

[DotCommunist]

TomUS would have and probably did cheer on cast lead because y'know. People with overgrown fireworks on rails and saying anti US things.

 

[DotCommunist]

What's a civilian bridge or road?

its what people use day in day out. They tend to be major arterial routes into large urban centres because they get people where they need to be at the quickest way. Engineers corps, formerly sappers will blow a bridge up to deny it to the enemy, then rebuild it when its needed for troop transport in a conquered zone.

in that gears of war total-military yeah headspace you seem to occupy that makes them legitimate targets regardless

lets see you justify white phos attacks on UN school compounds next

 

[goldenecitrone]

A racist Ukrainian nationalist who stirs up ethnic hatred gets bumped off

One less Nazi

Some racist Serb nationalists who stir up ethnic hatred get bumped off

Disgusting. Really showing your true colours here.

Spot the difference?

 

[8ball]

Andy Martin (US Republican Activist) takes a beating on Cross Talk (RT); but somehow manages to keep on smiling. I almost felt sorry for him despite his breath taking ignorance

OU put in a good showing, though.

 

[J Ed]

A racist Ukrainian nationalist who stirs up ethnic hatred gets bumped off



Some racist Serb nationalists who stir up ethnic hatred get bumped off



Spot the difference?

If you can't tell the difference between a gun-toting neo-Nazi militia leader and Serbian civilians then I'm not sure I, or anyone else, can help you.

 

[TomUS]

Are we talking about the British and American media or the Serbian media?

I'm talking about the US & Brit media that spewed lies to justify the Iraq invasion.