Ukraine

[goldenecitrone]

If you can't tell the difference between a gun-toting neo-Nazi militia leader and Serbian civilians then I'm not sure I, or anyone else, can help you.

One dead racist is as good as another.

 

[DairyQueen]

This is another good example where the right-wing and the left-wing actually end up coming to similar conclusions but with different rationale.

I really wish you would stop with this. For a start, the EU/USA and Russian Federation are both right-wing.

 

[DairyQueen]

He also wants to maintain/rebuild NATO in Europe, may be connected to the putative EU/US free trade agreement.

Have you noticed the zero coverage of this? This trade deal is quite significant.

 

[Delroy Booth]

I really wish you would fucking stop with this. For a start, the EU/USA and Russian Federation are both right-wing.

what? I'm not even referring to the EU/USA as left-wing. Please read what I've put more carefully before replying.

 

[DairyQueen]

what? I'm not even referring to the EU/USA as left-wing. Please read what I've put more carefully before replying.

You claimed that the left-wing and right-wing are drawing similar conclusions.

On the contrary, Washington has a deep-seated interest in ending this conflict and maintaining Ukraine as a sovereign buffer state between Russia and NATO.

How could 'maintaining Ukraine as a sovereign buffer' be stitched onto the conclusion of a left-wing argument?

 

[Delroy Booth]

You claimed that the left-wing and right-wing are drawing similar conclusions.

No I mean that right-wing political commentators and academics, like John Mearsheimer, were also against bringing Ukraine into NATO and US policy in Ukraine, but for different reasons to the left. re-read what I put more carefully.

How could 'maintaining Ukraine as a sovereign buffer' be stitched onto the conclusion of a left-wing argument?

it couldnt', and I'm not saying that!

 

[camouflage]

Radio & TV stations were legit targets since they broadcast Milosevic propaganda.

 

[Casually Red]

Radio & TV stations were legit targets since they broadcast Milosevic propaganda. What's a civilian bridge or road? I really doubt schools & maternity wards were deliberately targeted. That sounds like the 'Saddam's troops stole incubators from Kuwait hospitals & left the babies to die on the cold floors' story from Iraq war I. And the Chinese embassy.....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/oct/17/balkans

go on, fuck off you cunt

 

[Pickman's model]

Radio & TV stations were legit targets since they broadcast Milosevic propaganda. What's a civilian bridge or road? I really doubt schools & maternity wards were deliberately targeted. That sounds like the 'Saddam's troops stole incubators from Kuwait hospitals & left the babies to die on the cold floors' story from Iraq war I. And the Chinese embassy.....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/oct/17/balkans

have you been paying no attention to the 'guardian is shit' thrrad?

 

[Casually Red]

Which documentary?

this one, Zashto

http://rt.com/news/yugoslavia-nato-war-documentary-417/

heres it online

http://rt.com/shows/documentary/yugoslavia-bombing-nato-serbia-777/

Id really encourage people to watch this one . Ive stood in a few of those spots myself and I still get really angry thinking about it . And even angrier listening to their horseshit now .

 

[Casually Red]

I remember they were crying their fucking eyes out over this not long afterwards

 

[Casually Red]

One dead racist is as good as another.

there were over 2000 serb civilians killed in that onslaught . If that makes you happy your just a sick minded fuck .

 

[Casually Red]

Some believe the murder of Jill Dando may have been a response to the NATO bombing of a Serbian news station in which journalists and other civilian personnel were killed.

yeah, iirc correctly the make up girl was found decapitated .

I certainly believe the Dando killing was a reprisal for that . The Yugoslav hitsquads had a sort of trademark where they turned a targets head into an impromptu silencer after gripping them by the neck . It was a residential street in broad daylight and nobody heard a thing so that sort of fits . Definitely wasnt that poor sod they fitted up on absolutely nothing .
He got no bloody compo either .

 

[Casually Red]

Radio & TV stations were legit targets since they broadcast Milosevic propaganda. What's a civilian bridge or road? I really doubt schools & maternity wards were deliberately targeted. That sounds like the 'Saddam's troops stole incubators from Kuwait hospitals & left the babies to die on the cold floors' story from Iraq war I. And the Chinese embassy.....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/oct/17/balkans

you can watch it in the documentary

and that report is a pile of unnatributable , unprovable horseshit .

 

[TomUS]

its what people use day in day out. They tend to be major arterial routes into large urban centres because they get people where they need to be at the quickest way. Engineers corps, formerly sappers will blow a bridge up to deny it to the enemy, then rebuild it when its needed for troop transport in a conquered zone.

in that gears of war total-military yeah headspace you seem to occupy that makes them legitimate targets regardless

lets see you justify white phos attacks on UN school compounds next

I don't. And you seriously equate bombing bridges that were useful to Milosevic's troops & the Yugo economy with white phosphorous in Gaza?

 

[TomUS]

have you been paying no attention to the 'guardian is shit' thrrad?

No. And has it been shit since 99? That's a lot of shit.

 

[Casually Red]

I don't. And you seriously equate bombing bridges that were useful to Milosevic's troops & the Yugo economy with white phosphorous in Gaza?

when theres a passenger train full of commuters on the bridge yes, especially when you deliberately bomb it twice . And when you bomb hospitals,maternity wards, medical emergency centres. An old peoples home , clinics. When you deliberately blow up water treatment plants in the middle of all this then its most certainly the civilian population your going after .

Perhaps it is somehow tangentially the case that when you drop bombs on people going to a busy sunday market your attacking the economy. But when you drop more bombs on the people who come to their aid its the civilian population your most definitely targetting for terror . A tactic weve seen repeated over and over again Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen . Even funerals are fair game .
Thanks to Bradley Manning we now know for sure these terror tactics arent the mistakes they were presented as on the few times they were even admitted.

 

[DownwardDog]

Listening to Blair happily justifying the destruction of television and radio studios...and the workers inside them, civilian bridges, roads, pretty much anything that took their fancy . Schools, maternity wards...all sorts blown to pieces . Even the chinese embassy . Their list of what defines legitimate targets just widening to include everything. Ive stood in the middle of some of that destruction myself more than once.

They were only inside the TV station because the Milosevic crony that ran it didn't tell them they were about to get bombed and didn't evacuate them. He later did porridge in Serbia for this.

 

[DownwardDog]

when theres a passenger train full of commuters on the bridge yes, especially when you deliberately bomb it twice . And when you bomb hospitals,maternity wards, medical emergency centres. An old peoples home , clinics. When you deliberately blow up water treatment plants in the middle of all this then its most certainly the civilian population your going after .

If we had we been going after the civilian population we'd have killed a hell of a lot more than 500 of them...

 

[Casually Red]

the serbian authorities maintain 2000 civilians died, and theyre frankly more believable than you lot. Youre seriously trying to tell us now that targetting of civilians only started in Iraq





and you were going after the yugoslav army for 3 months and they drove out of kosovo pretty much intact with all thgeir heavy equuipment

 

[DownwardDog]

and you were going after the yugoslav army for 3 months and they drove out of kosovo pretty much intact with all thgeir heavy equuipment

The ones I found didn't drive anywhere.

 

[goldenecitrone]

there were over 2000 serb civilians killed in that onslaught . If that makes you happy your just a sick minded fuck .

Unsurprisingly, I bet you were cheerleading the Serb propagandists and their troops at the time, in the mass rapes and murders of Bosniaks and Kosovans, you rancid piece of shite. Just like you are cheering on Assad as he bombs his own country to smithereens and starves Palestinian refugees to death. You utter scum.

 

[J Ed]

Unsurprisingly, I bet you were cheerleading the Serb propagandists and their troops at the time, in the mass rapes and murders of Bosniaks and Kosovans, you rancid piece of shite. Just like you are cheering on Assad as he bombs his own country to smithereens and starves Palestinian refugees to death. You utter scum.

This is the second time you have equated Serb civilians with Serb combatants.

 

[thriller]

the serbian authorities maintain 2000 civilians died, and theyre frankly more believable than you lot. Youre seriously trying to tell us now that targetting of civilians only started in Iraq





and you were going after the yugoslav army for 3 months and they drove out of kosovo pretty much intact with all thgeir heavy equuipment

Clinical!

It was know doubt carrying filthy mass murdering serbian troops.

 

[camouflage]

Here's for jokes.

 

[Sirena]

One good one, for a start.....

http://rt.com/news/obama-crimea-iraq-invasion-565/

"Make no mistake, neither the United States nor Europe has any interest in controlling Ukraine"

 

[framed]

Unsurprisingly, I bet you were cheerleading the Serb propagandists and their troops at the time, in the mass rapes and murders of Bosniaks and Kosovans, you rancid piece of shite. Just like you are cheering on Assad as he bombs his own country to smithereens and starves Palestinian refugees to death. You utter scum.

That is hysterical, and by that I mean hysterically funny and a hysterical overreaction... Your take on war and conflict is that of a simpleton. War (i.e. 'the continuation of politics by other means') equates to 'Bad man bombs innocents...' in your little world. Fuxx sake, I'd rather wade through the propaganda of all sides and make my own mind up than read your bleating liberal pish.

 

[ViolentPanda]

In Obama's key note speech in Brussels he has just directly referred to the lessons of 1914 and 1939 in relation to Ukraine and Russia.

He also wants to maintain/rebuild NATO in Europe, may be connected to the putative EU/US free trade agreement.

TBF, the real lessons that should have been paid attention to were those between 1918 and 1922, when Ukraine was pretty much treated as expendable/a dismantleable territory by the Soviets, the Whites, the Poles and the Germans.

 

[ViolentPanda]

its what people use day in day out. They tend to be major arterial routes into large urban centres because they get people where they need to be at the quickest way. Engineers corps, formerly sappers will blow a bridge up to deny it to the enemy, then rebuild it when its needed for troop transport in a conquered zone.

in that gears of war total-military yeah headspace you seem to occupy that makes them legitimate targets regardless

lets see you justify white phos attacks on UN school compounds next

Yup. Even though some infrastructure-destruction is prohibited (sewerage and water-processing, power-generation and similar. Are you listening, O state of Israel?) under various conventions, in practice some infrastructure-destruction is pretty much "allowed" as "area denial".

 

[ViolentPanda]

One good one, for a start.....

http://rt.com/news/obama-crimea-iraq-invasion-565/

"Make no mistake, neither the United States nor Europe has any interest in controlling Ukraine"

Of course not. There are absolutely no historic reasons why, for example, Poland or Germany would wish to exert any influence whatsoever over Ukraine, or why Russia would.