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Ukraine

frogwoman said:
Interestingly the BBC had a piece of analysis on their website saying that Moldovans in moldova proper, not pridnestrovie/transnistria, are increasingly watching Russian TV channels for news about Ukraine which I find quite interesting given the deep animosity many of them understandably have towards the Russian state. I would be interested to read where they got this from....
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Does it say they're watching it for truth or because they want to get all the info.

co-ops posts have been appalling today and yesterday btw. Yes, i will tell you why.
 
Fuchs66 said:
My view on that is, who will get the most credibility, a new poster who appears makes a couple of posts and then disappears just as quickly, or an established poster who can be pushed to post in a certain direction by, for example bunging him a bit of cash? Not saying this is definitely the case but some threads have made me wonder.
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The need for such credibility presumes a proper campaign to win the hearts and minds of the community, to win a debate or at least get people to seriously ponder a point of view, doubt their previous stance etc.

The stuff I was on about did not tend to have those features, no sophistication or even much indication that the minds of active u75 posters were the target.
 
There used to be posters on here who some suspected were being paid by the Zionist regime, I never really bought that stuff, the simpler and far more unpalatable truth is that they actually believed their own bullshit
 
frogwoman said:
There used to be posters on here who some suspected were being paid by the Zionist regime, I never really bought that stuff, the simpler and far more unpalatable truth is that they actually believed their own bullshit
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Very probably true in this case too, but just every now and then the answers certain posters give are just too similar to the party line from Moscow, and seeing as certain Russian organisations have been funding posters and bloggers to push the party line, it just sets the alarm bells off in the back of my head.
 
Fuchs66 said:
Very probably true in this case too, but just every now and then the answers certain posters give are just too similar to the party line from Moscow, and seeing as certain Russian organisations have been funding posters and bloggers to push the party line, it just sets the alarm bells off in the back of my head.
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just-because-you-re-paranoid-doesn-t-mean-i-m-not-following-you.png
 
There has been a western backed fascist coup in Ukraine, if you call yourself an anti fascist you should be against it. Its that fucking simple, anybody who thinks people get paid by the Kremlin to hold this view is a fucking moron. Here's some Right Sector/Svoboda in action, spraying white power signs on buildings - this is why I'm against this coup. Because I'm an anti fascist.


edit : I presume they took that coat off that guy because it was red and red is the colour of communism :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
 
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Fuchs66 said:
Just as ludicrous as the idea that someone would go to the trouble of dismantling my laptop to get at and copy the hard drive I suppose.
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No, I wouldn't mix issues like that together in this way. It is perfectly possible to be aware, open-minded and/or vigilant about the lengths entities may on occasion or systematically go to target relatively insignificant people, sources of info etc, without suffering the self-defeating side effects of keeping such murky aspects of the world in mind.

Especially because when it comes to communities, it is equally possible to imagine that a useful tool of the trade is to sow dissension and mistrust, or at least encourage the conditions which enable it to flourish. For this and other reasons there is a delicate balancing act to be performed, so that lack of naivety and greater awareness of potential methods does not end up increasing our impotence rather than reducing it.
 
.
Fuchs66 said:
Very probably true in this case too, but just every now and then the answers certain posters give are just too similar to the party line from Moscow, and seeing as certain Russian organisations have been funding posters and bloggers to push the party line, it just sets the alarm bells off in the back of my head.
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PD could do with a few quid. What are the hours?

e2a: didn't see framed's post, hands off m8!
 
Radio 4 News report, EU are to offer closer ties, trading agreements, etc, to all former Eastern Bloc countries not already part of the group.


wtf, are they trying to provoke Russia?
 
framed said:
Put me down for a shift anyway... ;)
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sunny jim said:
There has been a western backed fascist coup in Ukraine, if you call yourself an anti fascist you're going to be against it. Its that fucking simple, anybody who thinks people get paid by the Kremlin to hold this view is a fucking moron. Here's some Right Sector/Svoboda in action, spraying white power signs on buildings - this is why I'm against this coup. Because I'm an anti fascist.


edit : I presume they took that coat off that guy because it was red and red is the colour of communism :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
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where are the police?,

oh, some of Svoboda are now police!

ah, they do appear but are helpless.
 
Fuchs66 said:
Very probably true in this case too, but just every now and then the answers certain posters give are just too similar to the party line from Moscow, and seeing as certain Russian organisations have been funding posters and bloggers to push the party line, it just sets the alarm bells off in the back of my head.
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By the sounds of things an ill-timed fart would set alarm bells off in your head, triggering a tirade about how Russians run all the banks and how their planning to poison the water supply.
 
DairyQueen said:
By the sounds of things an ill-timed fart would set alarm bells off in your head, triggering a tirade about how Russians run all the banks and how their planning to poison the water supply.
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Based on real experience, in Russia, dealing with Russians at a relatively high level, which brings me to the question what is your opinion based on?
 
treelover said:
Radio 4 News report, EU are to offer closer ties, trading agreements, etc, to all former Eastern Bloc countries not already part of the group.


wtf, are they trying to provoke Russia?
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Just noise. All that stuff was on the cards anyway and Putin's not really worried if Estonia or Latvia have more free trade agreements with the EU.

The west has got Ukraine but Russia has taken Crimea as a consolation prize. I still think there could've been a diplomatic way out of this late February if the acting Ukranian govt wasn't being so intransigent, but the opportunity was never taken to make a deal so Putin took the gamble with Crimea and it paid off. That's the benefit of quickly "changing the reality on the ground" to fit your needs. He gambled the US wouldn't react militarily and they didn't.
 
Fuchs66 said:
Based on real experience, in Russia, dealing with Russians at a relatively high level, which brings me to the question what is your opinion based on?
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So you were in high-level meetings, and based on those meetings you think "yup, those guys are definitely the types that would pay some grunt to post shit on urban"?
 
DotCommunist said:
its like some people are gutted the cold war never went nuclear and are now rubbing their hands with glee and checking the stock of tinned goods/cyanide pills
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I think it helped keep the Tories in power, never forgot that poster with the statement: "Labours defence policy", with an image of a soldier with his hands in the air surrendering, I'm convinced that had a bearing on the relevant general election.
 
DairyQueen said:
So you were in high-level meetings, and based on those meetings you think "yup, those guys are definitely the types that would pay some grunt to post shit on urban"?
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No just my experience in Russia has taught me to expect stupid shit from them, to expect them to try and gain access to information (no matter how innocuous or uninteresting I think it is) and yes to try and manipulate opinions no matter what level. And before you start with the old "stop picking on the Russians" shit, I am fully aware that they are not the only country doing this, its just that other countries tend to do it a bit more carefully and try not to get caught.
 
elbows said:
The funny thing is that there have been quite a number of occasions in the past where threads that seemed like obvious propaganda from the likes of Russia were started in this part of u75.

However they were usually done by brand new members, who didn't stick around to argue their case for long if at all. I certainly wouldn't bother to start wondering whether any well known posters have ever been paid to take a certain line, especially since there are many other explanations for their stances and they tend to apply their views fairly consistently and don't limit their adoration to a single nation.

As for the relative unimportance of u75, this is always to be kept in mind but must be balanced against a number of factors. For example the resources needed to post a view here are exceptionally low. And even if they have no interest in even trying to sway the opinions of contributors to the active discussions that take place here, u75 does have quite a lot of google juice.
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But if any of these people who pay for the posting of propaganda are watching I'd be happy to do it at a very reasonable price :p
 
Fuchs66 said:
No just my experience in Russia has taught me to expect stupid shit from them, to expect them to try and gain access to information (no matter how innocuous or uninteresting I think it is) and yes to try and manipulate opinions no matter what level. And before you start with the old "stop picking on the Russians" shit, I am fully aware that they are not the only country doing this, its just that other countries tend to do it a bit more carefully and try not to get caught.
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Purge the forum of "pro-Russian elements", your opinions will never be manipulated again.
 
The West has been doing their best to humiliate Russia since the wall came down.
The coup in Ukraine was the last straw, lines needed to be drawn by the Kremlin.
 
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