Ukraine

[camouflage]

Few things for you - a few lols in there as well (read - and think - carefully speed readers):

‘Blackwater’ in Ukraine: The etiology of a conspiracy theory

Putin’s Counter-Revolution

(my bold)

It''s laudable that you don't permit lies and misinformation to muddy the waters in this thing. It's certainly good to see that this forum has it's ever vigilant guardians against propagandists and besmirchers of Western policy. From the day Putin sent his armed thugs into Ukraine you've been there apron, to correct the bullshitters etc. And 'tank tock', I might add. Yes I'm sure the West hasn't been entirely altruistic, we can vaguely take that as given but it's by no means as important to shine a light on that kind of thing as it is the anti-Western conspiraloons, who we need to watch out for the most and your entirely consistent efforts on that front are appreciated etc.

By the way I think you're efforts on the Syria thread against Assad and his allies has been top notch. I've been thinking of starting a Venezuela thread, could you caste your eye over so that the Madura supporters are not left free to spread their lies and bullshit there too? Ta.

 

[butchersapron]

Thanks for that BA, no surprise at all, I'm glad you had the time to track it down.

Interesting final quote.

Here's another nail in CRs repeated claim that the estonian foreign ministry were saying that they supported the rumours mentioned in the bugged phone conversation - it's statement from the ministry:

The recording of a telephone conversation between Foreign Minister Urmas Paet and High Representative Catherine Ashton that has been leaked online is authentic.

The conversation between Paet and Ashton took place on 26 February after the Estonian Foreign Minister’s return from his visit to Ukraine. His visit took place last week, soon after the end of street violence in Kyiv.

Foreign Minister Paet was giving an overview of what he had heard the previous day in Kyiv and expressed concern over the situation on the ground. We reject the claim that Paet was giving an assessment of the opposition’s involvement in the violence.

Again though, febrile minds will read into this only confirmation that both that the claim was made and that it is true. (And then neglect to deal with their own associated claim that not only were the claims made and true but further, were based on forensic examination and reports by british experts, despite the apparent author of the claims denying they were made or that she had even seen the bodies in order to be able to make the claim, never mind the bodies and a set of expert forensic reports).

 

[butchersapron]

It''s laudable that you don't permit lies and misinformation to muddy the waters in this thing. It's certainly good to see that this forum has it's ever vigilant guardians against propagandists and besmirchers of Western policy. From the day Putin sent his armed thugs into Ukraine you've been there apron, to correct the bullshitters etc. And 'tank tock', I might add. Yes I'm sure the West hasn't been entirely altruistic, we can vaguely take that as given but it's by no means as important to shine a light on that kind of thing as it is the anti-Western conspiraloons, who we need to watch out for the most and your entirely consistent efforts on that front are appreciated etc.

By the way I think you're efforts on the Syria thread against Assad and his allies has been top notch. I've been thinking of starting a Venezuela thread, could you caste your eye over so that the Madura supporters are not left free to spread their lies and bullshit there too? Ta.

You're a rather ridiculous man aren't you. Not in the good fun way, in the defending shit in crude simplistic way based on juvenile motivations and shallow readings. God, imagine being naiwen and into your thirties?

 

[camouflage]

You're a rather ridiculous man aren't you. Not in the good fun way, in the defending shit in crude simplistic way based on juvenile motivations and shallow readings. God, imagine being naiwen and into your thirties?

I don't understand, I am saying nice things about your tireless efforts against the simple-minded and febrile anti-Western propagandists that support the likes of blood-thirty Assad and ruthless butcher Putin and his greedy Russian hordes.

 

[seventh bullet]

Even your sarcasm is shit.

You're just ... totally shit, really, aren't you?

 

[butchersapron]

I don't understand, I am saying nice things about your tireless efforts against the simple-minded and febrile anti-Western propagandists that support the likes of blood-thirty Assad and ruthless butcher Putin and his greedy Russian hordes.

Crack on then, anything but deal with the problems in your analysis thrown up by others. The adults can probably do that without your input.

 

[camouflage]

Even your sarcasm is shit.

You're just ... totally shit, really, aren't you?

Yet not as shit as you, gimp. Buzz off.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't understand, I am saying nice things about your tireless efforts against the simple-minded and febrile anti-Western propagandists that support the likes of blood-thirty Assad and ruthless butcher Putin and his greedy Russian hordes.

At least i taught you a new word though eh?

 

[camouflage]

Crack on then, anything but deal with the problems in your analysis thrown up by others. The adults can probably do that without your input.

Hang on- what problems in my analysis thrown up by others?

 

[butchersapron]

Hang on- what problems in my analysis thrown up by others?

Maybe there isn't any? Maybe i and others really are simple pro-US/western neo-liberal supporters who think Russian hordes want to take over half of europe. Maybe we do want to ban any public talk of wrongdoing by western states. Maybe our commitment to class based politics and analysis over many years is just a cover and that attempts to point out or investigate the anti-w/c nature of capital and the effects that international state-based competition on w/c life and wider prospects for independent class based political organisation and intervention that we see here is just a front? Maybe everyone else who laughs or questions your analysis really is the cartoon that you and your oh so effective speed reading has drawn. Maybe there's just no point talking to someone like you?

 

[camouflage]

Maybe there isn't any? Maybe i and others really are simple pro-US/western neo-liberal supporters who think Russian hordes want to take over half of europe. Maybe we do want to ban any public talk of wrongdoing by western states. Maybe our commitment to class based politics and analysis over many years is just a cover and that attempts to point out or investigate the anti-w/c nature of capital and the effects that international state-based competition on w/c life and wider prospects for independent class based political organisation and intervention that we see here is just a front? Maybe everyone else who laughs or questions your analysis really is the cartoon that you and your oh so effective speed reading has drawn. Maybe there's just no point talking to someone like you?

Well my impression is that you're a dusty old Marxist who sees everything in terms of Class War, and whose understanding of world events between states is shallow and orthodox. In international affairs you basically default to whatever the Tony Blair line would be. Asked about the NUT or something though and I'm sure you're as right-on as Bob Crow ever was.

In my language the words 'Tony Blair' are a grave insult by the way, I have gravely insulted you by saying that you stand next to that.

It's obvious what the West has done in the Ukraine, and why. According to your script though it's all about Putin seizing the Sudetanland. As horrid as the Russian state can be, what kind of an idiot looks at these events in the Ukraine and comes to this conclusion? Does Victoria Nuland program you in your sleep or what?

I'd honestly like to know, what the fuck happened to you man?

 

[Idris2002]

Well my impression is that you're a dusty old Marxist who sees everything in terms of Class War, and whose understanding of world events between states is shallow and orthodox. In international affairs you basically default to whatever the Tony Blair line would be. Asked about the NUT or something though and I'm sure you're as right-on as Bob Crow ever was.

In my language the words 'Tony Blair' are a grave insult by the way, I have gravely insulted you by saying that you stand next to that.

It's obvious what the West has done in the Ukraine, and why. According to your script though it's all about Putin seizing the Sudetanland. As horrid as the Russian state can be, what kind of an idiot looks at these events in the Ukraine and comes to this conclusion? Does Victoria Nuland program you in your sleep or what?

I'd honestly like to know, what the fuck happened to you man?

 

[butchersapron]

Well my impression is that you're a dusty old Marxist who sees everything in terms of Class War, and whose understanding of world events between states is shallow and orthodox. In international affairs you basically default to whatever the Tony Blair line would be. Asked about the NUT or something though and I'm sure you're as right-on as Bob Crow ever was.

In my language the words 'Tony Blair' are a grave insult by the way, I have gravely insulted you by saying that you stand next to that.

It's obvious what the West has done in the Ukraine, and why. According to your script though it's all about Putin seizing the Sudetanland. As horrid as the Russian state can be, what kind of an idiot looks at these events in the Ukraine and comes to this conclusion? Does Victoria Nuland program you in your sleep or what?

I'd honestly like to know, what the fuck happened to you man?

Stop speed reading. It's leading you into a fantasy world. Embarrassing stuff frankly.

 

[camouflage]

Stop speed reading. It's leading you into a fantasy world. Embarrassing stuff frankly.

Bah, whatever Jabba.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Brilliant

 

[barney_pig]

It is really unfair to confuse camouflage with coherent arguments and facts, shame on you butchers

 

[barney_pig]

A bizarre bbc world tonight report on yanakovic's corruption. Apparently the ducks in his mini zoo had 'duck houses', proof indeed of his corruption. Why is it not corruption when a Tory mp does it?

 

[teqniq]

duck knows

 

[TomUS]

Crimea's referendum: Check box 1, join Russia. Check box 2, join Russia.

Sunday's vote in Ukraine's Crimea is being officially billed as a chance for the peninsula's peoples to decide fairly and freely their future - but in fact there is no room on the ballot paper for voting "Nyet" to control by Russia.
According to a format of the ballot paper, published on the parliament's website, the first question will ask: "Are you in favor of the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a part of the Russian Federation?"

The second asks: "Are you in favor of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?"
But the 1992 national blueprint - which was adopted soon after the collapse of the Soviet Union and then quickly abolished by the young post-Soviet Ukrainian state - is far from doing that.

This foresees giving Crimea all the qualities of an independent entity within Ukraine - but with the broad right to determine its own path and choose relations with whom it wants - including Russia.

With the pro-Russian assembly already saying it wants to return Crimea to Russia, this second option only offers a slightly longer route to shifting the peninsula back under Russian control, analysts say.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/11/us-ukraine-crisis-referendum-idUSBREA2A1GR20140311

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Well my impression is that you're a dusty old Marxist who sees everything in terms of Class War, and whose understanding of world events between states is shallow and orthodox. In international affairs you basically default to whatever the Tony Blair line would be.

Tony Blair, that well known class warrior and Orthodox Marxist.

 

[kebabking]

Crimea's referendum: Check box 1, join Russia. Check box 2, join Russia.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/11/us-ukraine-crisis-referendum-idUSBREA2A1GR20140311

i'm shocked, shocked i tell you...

 

[camouflage]

It is really unfair to confuse camouflage with coherent arguments and facts, shame on you butchers

what thread are you reading? He hasn't put forward any arguments. His usual approach is to dismiss and belittle, that's not an argument!

 

[camouflage]

Tony Blair, that well known class warrior and Orthodox Marxist.

Indeed, the Complicit 'Left'. The Left of the Suez Crisis, the Left of Bliars War etc.

 

[seventh bullet]

Bliar.

 

[Idris2002]

Indeed, the Complicit 'Left'. The Left of the Suez Crisis, the Left of Bliars War etc.

Christ almighty.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Indeed, the Complicit 'Left'. The Left of the Suez Crisis, the Left of Bliars War etc.

So just to get this straight, in your fantasy world butchers and 'the left' supported blair's wars?

 

[camouflage]

A bizarre bbc world tonight report on yanakovic's corruption. Apparently the ducks in his mini zoo had 'duck houses', proof indeed of his corruption. Why is it not corruption when a Tory mp does it?

The guy was obviously a corrupt asshole (rare among politicians that). I still don't think it flies to just wreck the political system and have a mob sweep into power and get instant recognition though when elections are only months away and the corruop old bastard was at least negotiating and conceding stuff, doing things like offering the leader of the opposition the prime-ministership etc.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Tony bliar and ZANU-liebour

 

[camouflage]

So just to get this straight, in your fantasy world butchers and 'the left' supported blair's wars?

Not the Left, the 'Left', I haven't checked the things he came out with back then yet, but he certainly has supported the Wests most recent slew of dodgy interventions.

 

[SpineyNorman]

The guy was obviously a corrupt asshole (rare among politicians that). I still don't think it flies to just wreck the political system and have a mob sweep into power and get instant recognition though when elections are only months away and the corruop old bastard was at least negotiating and conceding stuff, doing things like offering the leader of the opposition the prime-ministership etc.

Who here has anyone said they approve of the actions of the new government or even that it's legitimate? You understand that it's possible to oppose US/EU interference and the fash friendly government they brought in and to think Putin probably doesn't have the interests of the Ukrainian people at heart and his interventions should therefore also be opposed, right?