Ukraine

[Eastern-Odyssey]

Eastern-Odyssey Can you elaborate on who/what the Young Guard is? Google tells me it was an anti fascist organisation in Ukraine during WW2, it also tells me it's the youth wing of Putin's United Russia party.

Well your right the Young Guards was a left wing anti-Fascist group during WWII, they often handed out anti-fascist pamphlets. In this context I don't really know because as far as I'm aware the organization no longer exists and I don't think they are talking in context of the youth wing of United Russia. The article says "leader of the so-called "young guards"" so I'm not to sure whether they are using it a political slur for anti-government pro-Russian politicians, or whether it's a conspiracy circulating in the Ukrainian press about pro-Russian activists, or whether their is actually a "young guards" movement, but the article gives no indication the group actually exists. Personally I get the impression their using it as an excuse to detain him, by making it sound like his part of an pro-Russian organised force to subvert current Ukrainian government.

 

[SpineyNorman]

And the EU isn't stealing everything? You're delusioned if you think this. Both Russia, and the EU and the US, are interfering, in my opinion and wouldn't let Urkraine decide for herself.

I hope you're not one of those who think the EU is perfect eh?

Of course the EU is perfect. And the US. That's pretty much the consensus view on these boards tbh

 

[Doctor Carrot]

And the EU isn't stealing everything? You're delusioned if you think this. Both Russia, and the EU and the US, are interfering, in my opinion and wouldn't let Urkraine decide for herself.

I hope you're not one of those who think the EU is perfect eh?

You've backtracked from your position of 'Russia has a right to the Ukraine' you made a few posts ago. Why does one imperialist system have more of a right to Ukraine over another? I agree that all three are interfering but you said Russia has more of a right to it? Why? When, as VP points out, Russia have decimated the place throughout history repeatedly. Seems most people favour looking West in Ukraine rather than looking East. Whether that's right for them I don't know, probably not, it's certainly worrying that the Ukraine have fascists with government positions but that still doesn't mean Russia has the right to interfere because it didn't get its own way.

 

[ViolentPanda]

And the EU isn't stealing everything?

What are the EU currently stealing from Ukraine? Nothing.
They may have intentions to do so, along the lines of what's happened in Poland (drainage of cheap labour into the wider market, and favourable trade terms for natural resources), but that's entirely different from syphoning state money into personal bank accounts.

You're delusioned if you think this. Both Russia, and the EU and the US, are interfering...

I've already said they're interfering. I've also pointed out that the interference differs in scale between the US and Russia on one hand, and the EU on the other.

in my opinion and wouldn't let Urkraine decide for herself.

Like Russia's doing? Russia are never going to let Ukraine decide for herself, because they know that the majority of Ukrainians, given the choice and given their history, might very well give the EU a chance.

I hope you're not one of those who think the EU is perfect eh?

Try not to be so hopelessly stupid as to make assumptions. I'm very far from believing that the EU is perfect, but what I do understand is that the EU is bound by it's rules of incorporation, and that those rules give members protections that federation with Russia does not. Ukraine has to be allowed to decide whether they want to continue to be Russia's donkey or not.

 

[gosub]

http://eeas.europa.eu/ukraine/assoagreement/assoagreement-2013_en.htm

 

[yield]

With eye on Crimea, U.S. starts military drills on Russia's doorstep
Reuters. Mon Mar 10, 2014

To the north in Poland, U.S. fighter jets are arriving at the central Lask air base to take part in joint exercises, with Poland's president expected to review the maneuvers.

Speaking on Monday at a Polish rocket defense site, not far from the Russian Baltic Fleet's base at Kaliningrad, Polish defense minister Tomasz Siemoniak said the exercise was to have been smaller, involving only transport aircraft.

But Siemoniak said that after the Russian military intervention in Crimea, Warsaw asked the Pentagon to send fighter jets instead. At least 12 F-16 fighters would be arriving in Poland this week, with 300 service personnel.

In a separate deployment since the Ukraine crisis began, extra U.S. military aircraft have arrived in Lithuania to take part in regular NATO air patrols over the Baltic states.

The alliance also said on Monday that it would start reconnaissance flights over Poland and Romania to monitor the situation in neighboring Ukraine. NATO ambassadors gave the go-ahead to the AWACS flights, acting on a recommendation by the alliance's top military commander, U.S. Air Force General Philip Breedlove, a NATO spokesman said.

The U.S. warship taking part in the Black Sea maneuvers is the USS Truxtun, a guided-missile destroyer with about 300 crew which is part of the U.S. Sixth Fleet headquartered in Italy.

Joining it in the exercises will be the Bulgarian naval frigate Drazki, and three Romanian naval vessels, Bulgaria's defense ministry said in a statement. The drill would take place in international waters southeast of the Romanian port of Constanta, it added.

Military drills

 

[Gramsci]

With eye on Crimea, U.S. starts military drills on Russia's doorstep
Reuters. Mon Mar 10, 2014


Military drills

Its contested by both sides buts its clear that at the time the Soviet leadership were given the impression that NATO would not move east of a united Germany.

The Der Spiegel article linked shows the history. Nothing in writing but several times the Soviet leaders were given verbal assurances.

imo this broken promise has helped cause distrust of the West intentions by later Russian leaderships.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yes, because Ukraine belonged to the URSS and the Russian Empire before, so it's their right to claim it back.

So because Canada formerly belonged to Britain as part of the British Empire, if serious trouble were to erupt here because of Quebec secession, for instance, Britain would have a right to claim Canada back?

 

[stowpirate]

Noticed yesterday that the Apache helicopters that exercise day and night over Suffolk appear to have departed RAF Wattisham possibly now relocated in Eastern Europe?

 

[newbie]

thought better of it, maybe I should be awake before posting?

 

[kebabking]

Noticed yesterday that the Apache helicopters that exercise day and night over Suffolk appear to have departed RAF Wattisham possibly now relocated in Eastern Europe?

very unlikely - not least because the logistics effort required to get their support out there would have the spotter forums (and the journalists who watch them) exploding.

the RAF is sending one of its E-3D AWACS aircraft to Eastern Europe as per the NATO request for surveilance assets - i wouldn't be surprised if one of the RAF Sentinal aircraft followed it. i'd expect to see NATO/US intelligence gathering aircraft continue to migrate east, but i rather doubt there'd be any movement of sizable combat units without a significant Russian movement into the rest of Ukraine.

it is, however, the start of the exercise season. it would not be unreasonable to bet on large scale NATO land force exercises in the eastern countries - given the panic (not too strong a word) coming out of a number of the NATO countries in the east, i bet they've offered all sorts of help and support to western NATO members to get exercises in the UK, Germany etc.. moved a few hundred miles east...

 

[stowpirate]

it is, however, the start of the exercise season. it would not be unreasonable to bet on large scale NATO land force exercises in the eastern countries - given the panic (not too strong a word) coming out of a number of the NATO countries in the east, i bet they've offered all sorts of help and support to western NATO members to get exercises in the UK, Germany etc.. moved a few hundred miles east...

Live very close to RAF Wattisham and no sign of normal activity. There is also a distinct lack of normal USAF activity, no touch and go training flights and all that normal noisy annoying stuff we hear all day long? My guess is they have all sneaked off to Germany for as you say some NATO exercise or relocated to Southern Europe/Turkey?

Just noticed this story and apparently some F16 have also headed for Poland.

http://www.stripes.com/news/lakenhe...trolling-as-ukraine-crisis-continues-1.271434

 

[kebabking]

theres a decent size exercise on on Salisbury plain, and the Apaches often go down there for a couple of days - could be that. i know some USAF F-15's from Lakenheath have already gone to the Baltics, one assumes they've also taken Tanker assets from Mildenhall with them.

could also be something prossaic - its the end of the financial year in two weeks, some units will have spent their non-critical budget and cut activity down to nothing.

that said, i'm not being dismmissive, you live there, you know whats normal and what isn't - and i know for a fact that NATO governments re much more worried about this and engaged with the eastern states than they are letting on.

 

[spring-peeper]

So because Canada formerly belonged to Britain as part of the British Empire, if serious trouble were to erupt here because of Quebec secession, for instance, Britain would have a right to claim Canada back?

Or France coming in to protect the Quebecers from the anglophones.

 

[kebabking]

Dublin belonged to us for 800 years, and everyone knows Dubs have got far more in common with us than they do with the Culchies with shit between their toes from Ballygobackwards...

 

[Pickman's model]

So because Canada formerly belonged to Britain as part of the British Empire, if serious trouble were to erupt here because of Quebec secession, for instance, Britain would have a right to claim Canada back?

you do know who the queen of canada is, right?

 

[TruXta]

Dublin belonged to us for 800 years, and everyone knows Dubs have got far more in common with us than they do with the Culchies with shit between their toes from Ballygobackwards...

Fuck off Johnny latecomers, if anyone's got a claim to Dublin it's us vikings, not you Anglo cunts.

 

[Pickman's model]

So because Canada formerly belonged to Britain as part of the British Empire, if serious trouble were to erupt here because of Quebec secession, for instance, Britain would have a right to claim Canada back?

who's that on the canadian money?

 

[Doctor Carrot]

who's that on the canadian money?

Helen Mirren

 

[ViolentPanda]

who's that on the canadian money?

Liz(ard) Windsor.

 

[camouflage]

Yes, highly trained mercenaries in that sort of local army surplus store get up wandering around with no tactical sense or awareness. Most definitely.

With eye on Crimea, U.S. starts military drills on Russia's doorstep
Reuters. Mon Mar 10, 2014





Military drills

What a to-do.

first the Washington Posse do what they can to break-out their ambitions from the constraint of boring old Ukrainian politics, and into sexy exciting Direct Action type stuff (get lost corrupt government, no negotiation, no waiting around for elections, etc).

And now that they've made Direct Action the way the game is plaid, so Russia turn up with their own capacity for Direct Action (they got interests in the game too right, so ok if you don't want to do politics anymore then yes Russia can do tanks and roaming gangs too)...

Now suddenly Direct Action is wrong and bad after all, suddenly we make out like the whole of Eastern Europe is under threat. Whole thing's probably just a tactic to soup up the Pentagons up-coming defence budget review anyway. Obviously with the usual neo-lib pillagers howling in the wings.

Bollocks to all of this.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Or France coming in to protect the Quebecers from the anglophones.

Exactly.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

you do know who the queen of canada is, right?

You do understand the repatriation of the Constitution carried out by Trudeau, right?

 

[Pickman's model]

You do understand the repatriation of the Constitution carried out by Trudeau, right?

i'll take that as a no then

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

i'll take that as a no then

That's fine; why would you start becoming sensible at this late stage of the game?

 

[Idris2002]

Anyway, Ukraine's acting president says that his state is in no position to launch a military operation to retake the Crimea:

http://www.afp.com/en/news/topstories/ukraine-wont-intervene-crimea-president

He also says that the coming referendum will be a sham.

 

[Teaboy]

You can't really argue with either of those points.

 

[DownwardDog]

i wouldn't be surprised if one of the RAF Sentinal aircraft followed it.

I wouldn't be surprised either. 2 Group will launch a Sentinel mission if a cat is stuck up a tree lately in a doomed attempt to save it from the axe in the 2015 SDSR.

 

[butchersapron]

Few things for you - a few lols in there as well (read - and think - carefully speed readers):

‘Blackwater’ in Ukraine: The etiology of a conspiracy theory

The same day that Voltaire posted its Dugin-sourced “U.S. mercenaries” story, a strange video appeared on YouTube, “USA military mercenary BlackWater in Ukraine (Donetsk),” posted on the obscure iRusTV channel. The video shows a group of men dressed in paramilitary gear, supposedly on the streets of the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk, running around in confusion.

Iran’s Press TV aired the video, claiming that locals were shouting “Blackwater!” at the armed men.

The shouting, however, is actually being directed at a civilian (a government worker perhaps), and the word which sounds vaguely like “Blackwater” is in fact Работай, which means “work” (as in “go back to work”).

The headline-hungry Daily Mail then leaped into the fray with “Has Blackwater been deployed to Ukraine? Notorious U.S. mercenaries ‘seen on the streets of flashpoint city’ as Russia claims 300 hired guns have arrived in country.”

With the story now having received the imprimatur of the Western mainstream media, Moscow’s RT was ready to jump in, while assuming a cautious posture by adding plenty of ostensibly judicious caveats — the authenticity of the videos being “hard to verify” and so forth.

Of course, such is the fodder for conspiracy theories: those planting the seeds don’t need to make any assertions of fact. All they need do is tease the imagination of an audience filled with febrile minds — the minds of people who are willing to believe almost any story if it happens to validate their own rigid worldview.

Putin’s Counter-Revolution

Putin’s great fear is that the people of a future better Ukraine might inspire an entirely different unification with their East Slav brethren on his side of the border – a common cause of popular revolt against him and other leaders like him. The revolution on Maidan Nezalezhnosti – Independence Square in Ukrainian – is the closest yet to a script for his own downfall. In that sense the invasion is a counter-revolution by Putin and his government against Russians and Ukrainians alike – against East Slav resistance as a whole.

(my bold)

 

[Fuchs66]

Thanks for that BA, no surprise at all, I'm glad you had the time to track it down.

Interesting final quote.