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Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-25

The39thStep said:
Waltz , Trump's national security advisor, called for the lowering of Ukraine's conscription age to 18 'in order to stabilise the front line'.

"Their draft age right now is 26 years old, not 18. I don’t think a lot of people realise that they could generate hundreds of thousands of new soldiers. So when we hear about morale problems, when we hear about issues on the front line, look, if the Ukrainians have asked the entire world to be all in for democracy, we need them to be all in for democracy."

So we've gone from a deal within 24 hours to Kellogg, Trump's Ukraine peace envoy, saying 100 days and now Waltz wanting to lower the conscription age which even if eventually agreed in Ukraine's parliament wouldn't lead to any newly trained and equipped troops till 6 months after that decision.


View attachment 459319
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Personally, I'm quite shocked that Trump didn't get a deal on day one
 
Good to read that the fella was released and is back with his family.

“Svitlana's husband Dima was released from captivity just over three months ago.

The couple are now happily back together, and enjoy playing with their four-year-old son, Vova.

Dima told his wife the Russians didn't act on their threats to punish him for her refusal to co-operate”.

www.bbc.co.uk

How Russia tries to turn desperate Ukrainians into traitors

The wife of a Ukrainian prisoner of war explains how Russia attempted to recruit her for sabotage.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
editor said:
How many schools, hospitals and people's homes have Ukraine bombed? How many young children have they abducted?
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The Geneva Conventions don't have a "tit for tat is okay though" appendix. I don't deny that Russia is guilty of far worse, but Ukraine's treatment of POWs in terms of releasing images/video/etc in the public domain has continually been poor. From the very start of the war. The worst of it appears to be from government - the soldiers have mostly played nice. I wouldn't expect any army to have a perfect record in war. Shit happens when you catch someone who's just killed all your mates. But Ukraine has been fairly good at revealing and disciplining those sorts of actions. It's the propaganda side that's out of control.
 
Chz said:
The Geneva Conventions don't have a "tit for tat is okay though" appendix. I don't deny that Russia is guilty of far worse, but Ukraine's treatment of POWs in terms of releasing images/video/etc in the public domain has continually been poor. From the very start of the war. The worst of it appears to be from government - the soldiers have mostly played nice. I wouldn't expect any army to have a perfect record in war. Shit happens when you catch someone who's just killed all your mates. But Ukraine has been fairly good at revealing and disciplining those sorts of actions. It's the propaganda side that's out of control.
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I'm not disagreeing but it's a bit much to throw down a 'they're just as bad as each other' line when the Russian state started this fucking war in the first place, and has been guilty of far more civilian deaths.
 
editor said:
I'm not disagreeing but it's a bit much to throw down a 'they're just as bad as each other' line when the Russian state started this fucking war in the first place, and has been guilty of far more civilian deaths.
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Im not saying heres the score sheet and they are as bad as each other, Im pointing out what war IS - war is a war crime - to point out war crimes within a war is to miss the point of what a war is
 
Chz said:
The Geneva Conventions don't have a "tit for tat is okay though" appendix. I don't deny that Russia is guilty of far worse, but Ukraine's treatment of POWs in terms of releasing images/video/etc in the public domain has continually been poor. From the very start of the war. The worst of it appears to be from government - the soldiers have mostly played nice. I wouldn't expect any army to have a perfect record in war. Shit happens when you catch someone who's just killed all your mates. But Ukraine has been fairly good at revealing and disciplining those sorts of actions. It's the propaganda side that's out of control.
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It must be galling to see your post so woefully misread
 
editor said:
Do you think Ukraine has acted as badly as Russia in this war? Who started the war? Who's been bombing hospitals, schools and homes and abducting small children?
Or do you think the 'bad guys' are equally as bad as each other?
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I don’t think there’s any sort of moral hierarchy among the bad guys, much as you’d like there to be.
 
Elpenor said:
I don’t think there’s any sort of moral hierarchy among the bad guys, much as you’d like there to be.
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Even in war, stealing children and bombing hospitals is a real low.

I note that you've avoided answering my questions. Oh well. Probably time to stick you on ignore.
 
Putin and his supporting oligarchs should pay for the rebuilding of Ukraine when this war ends. They've destroyed hundreds of thousands of ordinary Ukrainian people's homes and lives.

Putin did this for some weird nostalgic ideal. His desire for a re assembly of the people of the Rus. He also used the positioning of Nato countries as an excuse to invade a sovereign country. He felt they "threatened Russia"....Who wouldn't want to protect their country from potential invasion by Putin? No wonder Finland wants to be part of Nato.
Putin is undoubtedly eyeing up Finland and Latvia and Estonia..Who knows...Ireland even....the only thing stopping him is the abysmal nature of his own military / navy and their delapidated equipment which was lied about for years...by his own army. That and a lack of manpower / forces on the ground. And the fact that Nato is supporting Ukraine. It's all shit. But if Putin invaded Ireland I would want neighbouring countries and the eu and allies to help get him out. Wouldn't you?

He would happily throw more young men barely out of their teens to death for the glory of his imagined "Rus". He has shown himself to be an ideologically driven fraud.
Putin will be viewed even in Russia in years to come as a selfish self centred oligarch. A Tsar. A dictator. He has become what the February Revolution fought against.

Imo
 
emanymton said:
IDF and hamas just as bad as each other.
British army and the IRA just as bad as each other.
French army and the FLN just as bad as each other
Spanish civil war, POUM just as bad as the fascists.
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👍

Although , personally looking at what is coming out in the past 10 years about Irish local history... I think the IRA and the Free Staters were actually as bad as each other. Civil War does that to people.

In Putins head Ukraine / Russian war is like a civil war. He does seem to see them as misguided Russians needing to be brought into line.

It's all shit.

Innocent kids are the casualties of wars.
 
Aladdin said:
👍

Although , personally looking at what is coming out in the past 10 years about Irish local history... I think the IRA and the Free Staters were actually as bad as each other. Civil War does that to people.

In Putins head Ukraine / Russian war is like a civil war. He does seem to see them as misguided Russians needing to be brought into line.

It's all shit.

Innocent kids are the casualties of wars.
Click to expand...
soz where did the irregulars tie free staters together with a mine in their midst? where's the free state equivalent of 'tragedies of kerry'?
 
Pickman's model said:
soz where did the irregulars tie free staters together with a mine in their midst? where's the free state equivalent of 'tragedies of kerry'?
Click to expand...
You're right.

The free state army were brutal ... 188 anti treaty killed by free staters in the field. Some of it is still dividing villages and neighbours. I agree that the Free Staters were brutal. Ballyseedy massacre comes to mind.
The Free state executed 84 Republican Army . Many had fought alongside them against the British.
Munster was particularly violent.
After their successful attack on Kenmare in September, the Anti-Treaty shot National Army officer Tom "Scarteen" O'Connor in his home on Main Street. There was a steady stream of similar incidents after this point in Kerry, culminating in a series of high-profile atrocities in the "murder month' of March 1923. in Munster.

Irish Civil War: 12 Munster killings that tell the story of the conflict
This is worth a read.


Pickman's model there's an excellent documentary that was produced last year here. I will see if I can find it . Worth a watch for anyone interested. Things are mentioned in that documentary that are only coming to light in recent years. Protestants were forced out of their homes. Many were shopkeepers. Many left. That may mean nothing to some but it's something that should be part of any discussion about civil war Ireland. .Once we got to a stage where a treaty was signed and a pro treaty government was formed
...it was never ever going to be bloodless.

For anyone interested in finding out more about what local incidences occurred...rte produced a good series last year.

Sorry to derail thread.

Please don't quote.
I will be editing out personal family detail.
 
Last edited:
Aladdin said:
Putin and his supporting oligarchs should pay for the rebuilding of Ukraine when this war ends. They've destroyed hundreds of thousands of ordinary Ukrainian people's homes and lives.

Putin did this for some weird nostalgic ideal. His desire for a re assembly of the people of the Rus. He also used the positioning of Nato countries as an excuse to invade a sovereign country. He felt they "threatened Russia"....Who wouldn't want to protect their country from potential invasion by Putin? No wonder Finland wants to be part of Nato.
Putin is undoubtedly eyeing up Finland and Latvia and Estonia..Who knows...Ireland even....the only thing stopping him is the abysmal nature of his own military / navy and their delapidated equipment which was lied about for years...by his own army. That and a lack of manpower / forces on the ground. And the fact that Nato is supporting Ukraine. It's all shit. But if Putin invaded Ireland I would want neighbouring countries and the eu and allies to help get him out. Wouldn't you?

He would happily throw more young men barely out of their teens to death for the glory of his imagined "Rus". He has shown himself to be an ideologically driven fraud.
Putin will be viewed even in Russia in years to come as a selfish self centred oligarch. A Tsar. A dictator. He has become what the February Revolution fought against.

Imo
Click to expand...
Putin invading Ireland?
 
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