Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-25

[bimble]

Well if you don't believe there's a propaganda war going on, fair enough.

I was asking what the bloody strategy in the propaganda war would be ! You reply, there’s a propaganda war. Ok.

 

[Pickman's model]

i dont think yours is a better question. what potential benefit would there be in the UK lying claiming that Russians had admitted to the use of those weapons.The only one i can think of is as a way of trying to escalate the war. Which maybe, Ben Wallace.

Oh ffs the whole point of a propaganda war is to influence perceptions and altho Britain is as economical with the truth as any other country there's a view that Britain is honest. Or at least as honest as the day is long. And so as Putin's denials are now worthless it's very easy to make him look worse. It's an ongoing war, it's not like football where victories are scored - it's a different sort of battlefield

 

[bimble]

I looked at a Biden tweet earlier and the replies were full of people urging him to DO SOMETHING, send the planes, something. It may become a political issue if nothing else, but that will probably be too late for people in Kyev if the chemical attack is a real immediate plan.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I was asking what the bloody strategy in the propaganda war would be ! You reply, there’s a propaganda war. Ok.

You added that to your post as I was replying, I would explain further, but Pickman's model has basically covered it above.

 

[bimble]

You added that to your post as I was replying, I would explain further, but Pickman's model has basically covered it above.

ok, the Ministry of Defence may be lying in order to make Putin look worse, so to escalate the war, maybe to encourage others to get on with sending more weapons. Its possible. so I got an answer to my question but not sure either of you helped.

 

[Pickman's model]

ok, the Ministry of Defence may be lying in order to make Putin look worse, so to escalate the war, maybe to encourage others to get on with sending more weapons. Its possible. so I got an answer to my question but not sure either of you helped.

You seem to have been looking at a different answer to the one I gave. It's nothing to do with escalating the war, you've something of a bee on your bonnet about that

 

[mojo pixy]

If NATO get involved it’s WW3.

It's been WW3 since 11th September 2001, this is either a new front in that war, or it's the start of WW3.1 .. either way I think this is only heading in one direction, I struggle not to panic at times tbh. No way off this planet.

 

[bimble]

You seem to have been looking at a different answer to the one I gave. It's nothing to do with escalating the war, you've something of a bee on your bonnet about that

ok, you said 'to make Putin look worse'. I am bored of this conversation now. I accept that maybe the Ministry of Defence lied when they tweeted that the Russian MOD had confirmed use.

 

[bimble]

Not getting directly involved, to prevent WW3, is based on the idea that if Ukraine is sacrificed then in the long run / in the wider scheme of things, there'll be less horror and death, that their suffering now will buy peace for us later, isnt it?

 

[contadino]

What are the ‘red lines’ for other countries direct involvement, is it that there are none, basically unless you’re a nato member ? So Russian army may as well do whatever they like no fear of escalating response at this point?

As far as I can see, they are doing whatever they want right now. That was the purpose of telling the world they're okay with using nukes - so that nobody would try to intervene.

 

[not-bono-ever]

I wouldn't be surprised if they're looking to produce some sort of response like an attack on a hospital in Russia that they can seize on and say 'terrorists!', which at a stroke would ease several of Putin's problems

Putin made hay with this in the past with the Chechens

 

[Pickman's model]

ok, you said 'to make Putin look worse'. I am bored of this conversation now. I accept that maybe the Ministry of Defence lied when they tweeted that the Russian MOD had confirmed use.

You said your question related to the strategy of the propaganda war, and in simple terms it's to make the other guy look bad by alleging they do nasty things. Now you say you're only interested in the one tweet. If it's a subject you want to pursue you might like to read 'munitions of the mind', a history of propaganda, and 'taliban narratives', about information operations in Afghanistan. This latter an excellent book by Thomas Johnson.

 

[Pickman's model]

Putin made hay with this in the past with the Chechens

Yeh and it's such a good idea I expect it to be used again

 

[weltweit]

Not getting directly involved, to prevent WW3, is based on the idea that if Ukraine is sacrificed then in the long run / in the wider scheme of things, there'll be less horror and death, that their suffering now will buy peace for us later, isnt it?

Not getting involved is to avoid the position of Nato taking on Russia directly which could lead to WWIII and could escalate to a nuclear exchange.

Lots of military aid - weapons - have been supplied to Ukraine but that is going to be as far as it goes.

 

[Mr Moose]

Been thinking about the fighter plane scenario.
Is there a possibility that the fighter planes could be shipped in a njmber of parts and put together in Poland for Ukraine pilots to fly back to Ukraine?
Or could the parts be brought from Poland to Ukraine and assembled there?
Not completely taken apart but maybe just in a small number of parts.

This is known as the Johnny Cash strategy. Can result in a slightly random, hybrid machine.

 

[bimble]

Not getting involved is to avoid the position of Nato taking on Russia directly which could lead to WWIII and could escalate to a nuclear exchange.

Lots of military aid - weapons - have been supplied to Ukraine but that is going to be as far as it goes.

Yes I know. Everyone is scared of his nukes basically. That’s it.

 

[weltweit]

Yes I know. Everyone is scared of his nukes basically. That’s it.

I think also he is scared of ours.

 

[planetgeli]

Yes I know. Everyone is scared of his nukes basically. That’s it.

Well losing two-thirds of the northern hemisphere (plus parts of Micronesia) is sort of a lot.

If only we'd campaigned against nuclear weapons when we were younger...

 

[bimble]

It’s the bombed out hospital and maternity centre, those photos, I feel different having seen them. They’re dropping those bombs on those places because they feel confident that there are no consequences to doing so.

 

[friedaweed]

It's definitely ramping up for some form of contrived external intervention to happen some day soon.

I suspect there's some Irish fishermen polishing their wellys right now. Someone's going to have to fly those plains in and up to now they seem like the only ones who aint shit scared of Cuntychops.

 

[friedaweed]

It’s the bombed out hospital and maternity centre, those photos, I feel different having seen them. They’re dropping those bombs on those places because they feel confident that there are no consequences to doing so.

That's because they're cunts and plain old dogs of war. It's not like they don't have form for this sort of shit.

 

[mojo pixy]

Not getting directly involved, to prevent WW3, is based on the idea that if Ukraine is sacrificed then in the long run / in the wider scheme of things, there'll be less horror and death, that their suffering now will buy peace for us later, isnt it?

I personally think this underlies the rabbit-in-the-headlights look our democratically elected betters are showing just now. It's understandable too, but by now I'm not sure "if we don't do this he won't do that" is a good strategy any more. Where that leaves us all is terrifying though.

 

[Spymaster]

ok, you said 'to make Putin look worse'. I am bored of this conversation now. I accept that maybe the Ministry of Defence lied when they tweeted that the Russian MOD had confirmed use.

Fwiw, I think Pickmans and Cupid are wrong, and the MoD are saying that Russia has used thermobaric weapons because Russia has used thermobaric weapons.

 

[Ax^]

Not getting directly involved, to prevent WW3, is based on the idea that if Ukraine is sacrificed then in the long run / in the wider scheme of things, there'll be less horror and death, that their suffering now will buy peace for us later, isnt it?

the worrying thing about a fight with Russia with the west of the world is the amount of tactical nuke the mad bastard has
sure we all have a lot of nukes to end the world but he can use nuke to kill massive of equipment and troops


the west only response would be to fire an low yeild icbm and hope the Russian did not take it as a full attack

 

[planetgeli]

the worrying thing about a fight with Russia with the west of the world is the amount of tactical nuke the mad bastard has
sure we all have a lot of nukes to end the world but he can use nuke to kill massive of equipment and troops


the west only response would be to fire an low yeild icbm and hope the Russian did not take it as a full attack

That's basically the plot of Threads.

Ended well.

 

[Ax^]

i watched it on the weekend


and its the bleakest fucking thing i've ever seen

 

[gosub]

Fwiw, I think Pickmans and Cupid are wrong, and the MoD are saying that Russia has used thermobaric weapons because Russia has used thermobaric weapons.

As have Ukraine, doesn't necessarily mean TOS1 mass barrage, could just be RPGs

 

[friedaweed]

i watched it on the weekend


and its the bleakest fucking thing i've ever seen

Clearly you've never seen Love Island then.

 

[bimble]

Fwiw, I think Pickmans and Cupid are wrong, and the MoD are saying that Russia has used thermobaric weapons because Russia has used thermobaric weapons.

The weird bit is that the headline was Russia having confirmed it. That’s what I didn’t get. "Russia admits using thermobaric weapon system in Ukraine, UK says'.

 

[Plumdaff]

The weird bit is that the headline was Russia having confirmed it. That’s what I didn’t get. "Russia admits using thermobaric weapon system in Ukraine, UK says'.

As kebabking mentioned earlier in the thread, it's psychological warfare. Look what we're going to do to you.