UCU - Pensions and Pay Disputes

[cybershot]

Had email this morning telling me to ignore my employer consultation later that is sitting on my desk, but to keep it, just in case!

 

[redsquirrel]

New deal put to UCU, first look seems to be good deal better than the one that came out of ACAS but devil is in the detail.

I have spoken today to UCU's Superannuation Working Group who are agreed that this statement should go to members and that - in line with our previous practice - USS branches should be recalled to a briefing on Wednesday, 28 March to provide initial feedback on your response.

It will then be for the Higher Education Committee to decide on the further process for consulting members via a ballot.

We have worked hard to gain these concessions, but they were won on the back of the strike action that so many of you have taken.

 

[heinous seamus]

Status quo for a year while UUK rethink their plan of attack.

 

[redsquirrel]

UCU leadership pushing (softly) for acceptance of the deal.

7. Is the employers' proposal for a fully defined contribution pension really off the table?

The employers have now indefinitely suspended the USS consultation on their original proposal.

The current proposal makes clear in two places that they now recognise the importance of 'the guaranteed pension'. First in the acceptance that the expert group's work should reflect the wish of staff to have 'a guaranteed pension comparable to current provision'. Second, in a situation where the independent expert group reports that benefits or contributions may need to be adjusted it is now recognised that a 'guaranteed pension broadly comparable with current arrangements' must still be provided.

This new protection of the defined benefit principle is an enormous move from the employers’ starting position that everyone should move onto a fully defined contribution (e.g unguaranteed) pension.

The likelihood of getting this group of employers to go further than this in protecting the principle of the guaranteed pension is slim, even with further rounds of industrial action.

This seems to be a decent rebuttal of the deal (still working my way through all of it).

Sheffield branch passed motion.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Currently on the picket line at my college.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

.

 

[redsquirrel]

Currently on the picket line at my college.

Good luck comrade. Hopefully the weather isn't/won't be too bad.

 

[redsquirrel]

Deal going to members for ballot.

Representatives from UCU branches at the universities in dispute over changes to the USS pension scheme and the union's higher education committee (HEC) met today. After seeking some clarification, including that the defined benefit element of the scheme would be maintained while a joint-expert panel considers the valuation of the USS fund, HEC voted to put the proposals to members in a ballot.

Now got to organise a campaign to reject.

EDIT: Appears that the HEC vote was 10:8 in favour of balloting. If anyone sees a list of how people voted can they post it.

 

[redsquirrel]

Glasgow rejected it too.

Unanimously rejected by 84 Lancaster members this afternoon.

Rejected by 195-0 at my branch.

What was your branches views on the new deal?

We had a majority in favour of balloting members after clarification + minor modifications. On a straight accept/reject indicative vote reject won with a strong majority.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Back on the picket. Final push before Easter.

 

[redsquirrel]

Back on the picket. Final push before Easter.

Hope it goes well. If the weather here is anything to go by at least you've got a nice day.

 

[PursuedByBears]

What was your branches views on the new deal?

We had a majority in favour of balloting members after clarification + minor modifications. On a straight accept/reject indicative vote reject won with a strong majority.

Lancaster voted to reject; then revise and resubmit.

This is a poor decision by UCU and we need to organise to reject the offer. My worry is that the less commited members who don't turn up at branch meetings want this all to be over now and will vote to accept to make it all go away, and then we've lost.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

What was your branches views on the new deal?

We had a majority in favour of balloting members after clarification + minor modifications. On a straight accept/reject indicative vote reject won with a strong majority.

Accept under the conditions set out in the motion 74.9%

Accept outright 16.2%

Reject outright 5.1%

Undecided or none of the above 3.8%

 

[Idris2002]

Back on the picket. Final push before Easter.

Good luck, ships.

 

[Benjamin F]

At Glasgow University Email; Accept 182, reject 51, accept with conditions 39. At the EGM, a packed room of over 200 only 7 rejected the proposal outright the majority was accept with sufficient clarification (1400 members).

However, it does seem to me that there is a victory of quite a considerable sort: defined benefit remains at the moment and UUK in their letter state they are not planning on moving to the much inferior defined contributions. This would not have happened without industrial action. Hundreds of thousands of students have now had an experience of successful and joyful industrial action, something as important as anything else they'll have learnt at University. Almost all my students had no experience of a union, knew what a strike was ('you still get paid, right'?) or knew what a picket-line was. Indeed some of this was true, at first, of fellow Union members...

Of course the employers are either going to find a way to wriggle out of this commitment or seek to undermine pay and conditions in other ways. Of course they are - that is what neo-liberal management is based on. And until we replace the governance of Universities (and indeed all other major institutions) they will continue to seek ways to undermine pay and conditions to maximise return on investment. More industrial action is going to happen and we need to spend this period continuing to pressure employers, showing solidarity amongst each other and building and strengthening social organisations that will assist that (militant unions, revolutionary syndicates, informal workplace groups, communal networks, social centres...). The struggle continues....

 

[redcogs]

At Glasgow University Email; Accept 182, reject 51, accept with conditions 39. At the EGM, a packed room of over 200 only 7 rejected the proposal outright the majority was accept with sufficient clarification (1400 members).

However, it does seem to me that there is a victory of quite a considerable sort: defined benefit remains at the moment and UUK in their letter state they are not planning on moving to the much inferior defined contributions. This would not have happened without industrial action. Hundreds of thousands of students have now had an experience of successful and joyful industrial action, something as important as anything else they'll have learnt at University. Almost all my students had no experience of a union, knew what a strike was ('you still get paid, right'?) or knew what a picket-line was. Indeed some of this was true, at first, of fellow Union members...

Of course the employers are either going to find a way to wriggle out of this commitment or seek to undermine pay and conditions in other ways. Of course they are - that is what neo-liberal management is based on. And until we replace the governance of Universities (and indeed all other major institutions) they will continue to seek ways to undermine pay and conditions to maximise return on investment. More industrial action is going to happen and we need to spend this period continuing to pressure employers, showing solidarity amongst each other and building and strengthening social organisations that will assist that (militant unions, revolutionary syndicates, informal workplace groups, communal networks, social centres...). The struggle continues....

i have to say that i would have been amongst the 51 votes of rejection at Glasgow Univ.. Despite the management concessions i imagine more can be won through a continuation of the action. Striker moral still seems very high - so why accept an effective cut in conditions of employment. Getting stuck in now rather than having to fight again at a later stage makes sense.

 

[redsquirrel]

This is a poor decision by UCU and we need to organise to reject the offer. My worry is that the less commited members who don't turn up at branch meetings want this all to be over now and will vote to accept to make it all go away, and then we've lost.

Exactly my feelings

 

[Santino]

At Glasgow University Email; Accept 182, reject 51, accept with conditions 39. At the EGM, a packed room of over 200 only 7 rejected the proposal outright the majority was accept with sufficient clarification (1400 members).

However, it does seem to me that there is a victory of quite a considerable sort: defined benefit remains at the moment and UUK in their letter state they are not planning on moving to the much inferior defined contributions. This would not have happened without industrial action. Hundreds of thousands of students have now had an experience of successful and joyful industrial action, something as important as anything else they'll have learnt at University. Almost all my students had no experience of a union, knew what a strike was ('you still get paid, right'?) or knew what a picket-line was. Indeed some of this was true, at first, of fellow Union members...

Of course the employers are either going to find a way to wriggle out of this commitment or seek to undermine pay and conditions in other ways. Of course they are - that is what neo-liberal management is based on. And until we replace the governance of Universities (and indeed all other major institutions) they will continue to seek ways to undermine pay and conditions to maximise return on investment. More industrial action is going to happen and we need to spend this period continuing to pressure employers, showing solidarity amongst each other and building and strengthening social organisations that will assist that (militant unions, revolutionary syndicates, informal workplace groups, communal networks, social centres...). The struggle continues....

The UUK offer is meaningless though. It makes no firm promises and commits them to nothing. It's not even clear that the new panel will look at a new valuation.

 

[redsquirrel]

The UUK offer is meaningless though. It makes no firm promises and commits them to nothing. It's not even clear that the new panel will look at a new valuation.

Precisely, you can drive a truck thorough the wording.

 

[Benjamin F]

The UUK offer is meaningless though. It makes no firm promises and commits them to nothing. It's not even clear that the new panel will look at a new valuation.

Aye, but isn't the old proposal of removing defined benefits now off the table, so legally it cannot go forward at the moment? The process of removing defined benefits has stalled. Or have I misunderstood?

i accept they can bring it back again but they can renege on any deal. If we want to destroy UUK - an objective I approve of - and move towards greater worker-student- community control then we need to prepare to battle for that. We should use the Haitus and the great confidence we have gained to build in that direction.

 

[redsquirrel]

Aye, but isn't the old proposal of removing defined benefits now off the table, so legally it cannot go forward at the moment? The process of removing defined benefits has stalled. Or have I misunderstood?

Recognising that staff highly value Defined Benefit provision, the work of the group will reflect the clear wish of staff to have a guaranteed pension comparable with current provision whilst meeting the affordability challenges for all parties, within the current regulatory framework.

The panel will focus in particular on reviewing the basis of the scheme valuation, assumptions and associated tests. It will take into account the unique nature of the HE sector, inter-generational fairness and equality considerations, the need to strike a fair balance between ensuring stability and risk. Recognising that staff highly value Defined Benefit provision, the work of the group will reflect the clear wish of staff to have a guaranteed pension comparable with current provision whilst meeting the affordability challenges for all parties, within the current regulatory framework.

Note the comparable, one of the things our branch wanted resolved (and Hunt/the HEC didn't press UUK on) was what exactly that means.

i accept they can bring it back again but they can renege on any deal. If we want to destroy UUK - an objective I approve of - and move towards greater worker-student- community control then we need to prepare to battle for that. We should use the Haitus and the great confidence we have gained to build in that direction.

I don't disagree with any of that apart from the last sentence. We've currently got UUK on the ropes why give them a chance to get their wind back rather than keeping on hitting the fuckers?

 

[redsquirrel]

Worth noting that HE Michael Otsaka who was in favour of the offer going to ballot, is now much more skeptical.

Personally, I will require clarity on this question before I will be in a position to state my own level of support for the current proposal. This is clarity UUK can and should provide, and before the ballot opens next week.

Need to make sure members that didn't turn up to meetings understand this

EDIT: Reports of HEC meeting from UCU left and a delegate. Fuck Hunt, she just want's this closed off.

EDIT2: And a couple more, 1. 2

And note this

On several occasions a delegate suggested a vote to get a non-binding sense of this (yellow voting cards had been supplied). The chair, UCU President Joanna de Groot, rejected this suggestion, and no votes occurred. In consequence, any tallies about branch opinion – whether those made by officials or by observers like me – are speculative.

de Groot's another one that needs to go

And decent analysis of current situation.

 

[Santino]

Mike Otsuka is incredibly naive and should probably be ignored anyway.

 

[aqua]

we voted to accept as a branch - I think the feeling was this was as good as it was ever going to get. there was a real sense of actually this fight is no longer just pensions but has morphed into the what is a university for debate and everyone felt a bit ground down but then we're not a very political university and membership is very small

 

[redsquirrel]

we voted to accept as a branch - I think the feeling was this was as good as it was ever going to get. there was a real sense of actually this fight is no longer just pensions but has morphed into the what is a university for debate and everyone felt a bit ground down but then we're not a very political university and membership is very small

Accept straight of accept subject to clarification/minor revisions?

 

[aqua]

Accept straight of accept subject to clarification/minor revisions?

Accept straight

 

[teuchter]

Shoot the messenger if you will - but most university staff don't want to engage in protracted strikes with a higher aim of forcing more general changes to the way universities operate (even if they are unhappy about the way things are going at the moment, increasing commercialisation, etc). They just want to make sure their pensions aren't entirely trashed, and then they want to start getting paid again and get on with their work, which in practice they are going to do (or have been doing) anyway. That'll be a disappointment to the more enthusiastic participants in this action but that - I reckon - is the reality. Maybe I'll be proven wrong.

 

[Pickman's model]

Shoot the messenger if you will - but most university staff don't want to engage in protracted strikes with a higher aim of forcing more general changes to the way universities operate (even if they are unhappy about the way things are going at the moment, increasing commercialisation, etc). They just want to make sure their pensions aren't entirely trashed, and then they want to start getting paid again and get on with their work, which in practice they are going to do (or have been doing) anyway. That'll be a disappointment to the more enthusiastic participants in this action but that - I reckon - is the reality. Maybe I'll be proven wrong.

you're already wrong. people are on strike for their pensions. they aren't on strike to improve the cackhanded way universities are run, otherwise it'd be unite, unison and ucu all out. turning to the issue of pay, being as it's about 80% in real terms of what it was a decade ago, it would be good if this could be reversed without going on strike or taking other forms of action. but this is unlikely as the senior management in heis, while happy to accept whopping pay rises themselves are somewhat reluctant to offer a decent recompense to the people who actually make universities work. sok, the message is shit and the messenger not much better

 

[teuchter]

people are on strike for their pensions. they aren't on strike to improve the cackhanded way universities are run,

Yes. That's what I said. Comments on this thread illustrate that some people want it to become about more than pensions, but I don't think that's going to happen.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes. That's what I said. Comments on this thread illustrate that some people want it to become about more than pensions, but I don't think that's going to happen.

You don't know what most university staff think. You only think you know what they think