Uaf Swp Lmhr Fuck Off!!!!

[butchersapron]

You've always got a handy example haven't you MC5. That works out nice for you.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Lordy, did you just come in on the latest boat hocus?

don't worry hocus butchers is our resident father Jack. he will start shouting" drink, drink, drink" in a bit.

 

[audiotech]

You've always got a handy example haven't you MC5. That works out nice for you.

Accusing me of lying arsewipe?

 

[butchersapron]

perhaps an unfortunate choice of words in the context? tho' I agree that hocus does come across as slightly naive

An expertly chosen choice of words. And please, don't flannel him - 'slighty' - he's miles off.

 

[butchersapron]

Accusing me of lying arsewipe?

I'm saying that you have a range of experiences to suit the immediate situation.

 

[urbanrevolt]

off the boat? In a debate about racists and immigrants?

But anyway what's your solution to fascism?

we say for united working class community campaigns against cuts, privatisation, crap housing and the rest, for working class cmapaigns that win, for organsied self-defence against the fascists and the other exploiters

you say what- fuck the swp? not that I'm even in the swp and nor are most of the people I know- at least they understand a class respnse to fascism though and for the violent suppression of the BNP

 

[butchersapron]

I say smash the exploiters! Workers defence squads. And all that old old shit.

 

[audiotech]

I'm saying that you have a range of experiences to suit the immediate situation.

Are you an MP?

Living in a block of council flats for the last thirty years, the range of experience has been vast.

Right now, there's a security problem to deal with.

You can take me at my word with what I say butchers, or not.

 

[TremulousTetra]

off the boat? In a debate about racists and immigrants?

But anyway what's your solution to fascism?

now you must be pist. get butchers to bring something to the table?

 

[urbanrevolt]

I say smash the exploiters! Workers defence squads. And all that old old shit.

I don't know if you';re taking the piss- probably.

Actually in real struggles people are for defence squads and are for defending and even extending their services. Actually we should smash the exploiters but it's no good just going out and shouting that- we have to be involved in pateint sytematic work in struggles alongside fllow working class people who will libertate themsleves thorugh what we all learn

But the differnce is if the BNP were up the road in a pub I'd be with hundreds of other local people throwing out the poisonous scum

 

[butchersapron]

Is that what they'd be doing today is it?

 

[urbanrevolt]

'd certainly be doing it today if they were in my area
as for the council hall demo that's a start but obviously has to go far wider and more localised as well

but if you say to Black people and other workers genuinely alarmed that fascists are in the assembly oh we don;t care it doesn;t help build that mass movement

 

[Das Uberdog]

I'm saying that you have a range of experiences to suit the immediate situation.

You've chatted the same bullshit with me in the past, too. That's what you get with living in the real world and talking to real people butty. You should try getting up off your arse and doing something once in a while - perhaps then your life won't be so uneventful.

 

[butchersapron]

*whoosh* Butty eh

 

[Das Uberdog]

I could just call you 'knob'?

 

[articul8]

Lordy, did you just come in on the latest boat hocus?

Obviously wide of the mark re Respect, but Hocus has a point re UAF - OK there's clearly an SWP element in the leadership - Wheyface Bennett's role etc. - but the only way they can maintain this is to to keep the politics to a lowest common denominator to get a wide buy in from the union leaderships. Were - in some fantasy universe - the SWP to raise a clear class alternative, they would swiftly be marginalised and another liberal-left front group would be set up to co-ordinate trade union activity.

It's interesting that UAF had such a low profile in the London elections. Everything was put into the LMHR basket(-case). Presumably as the unions wanted to channel resources into the Ken campaign?

 

[ViolentPanda]

And who listens to you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in fact who listens to MC5 period. btw as i recall the name of the poll tax chnaged to council tax and the left wing newspapers went horray the same as they have done about the 10p we took it away will give it back to some but not to all if at all

dutri2 is actually talking sense okay lets see

Poll tax = charge made on each adult resident of a household.

Council tax = single charge made on residence.

SLIGHT difference.

 

[ViolentPanda]

anti-fascism equal white posh kids saying we know best

Of course it does. In your fevered imagination, anyway.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes they are the first thing the swp say is do not vote bnp the second thing they say is have you read this great utopian book called marx etc and way way way down the list

See, you can't even get this right, you've obviously been fortunate enough to never actually meet a swappie.
Even a village idiot knows that the fiirst thing the SWP says is "Socialist Worker, get your copy here", the second thing they do is ask "have you read these great utopian books by Harman and Callinicos?" (like they'd give Karl Marx a look-in ), and the third thing is "don't vote for the Nazi BNP".

 

[butchersapron]

BNP are nazis! Vote Tory!

 

[TremulousTetra]

BNP are nazis! Vote Tory!

and you wouldn't say that because for you there is no distinction?

 

[brasicritique]

it is you, not the working class, who is an excuse merchant. you along with the anarchists etc.if it is so fucking easy, do it, instead of whining about a virtually insignificant organisation SW.

SW IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR FAILURES.

The swp are responsible for there own failures . it makes me laugh to think how you expect people to organise with out money time or funding.

i am not critical of uaf i am critical of the anti fascit tactics and to say as one poster has that they are staunchy working classs is a joke

t

 

[brasicritique]

See, you can't even get this right, you've obviously been fortunate enough to never actually meet a swappie.
Even a village idiot knows that the fiirst thing the SWP says is "Socialist Worker, get your copy here", the second thing they do is ask "have you read these great utopian books by Harman and Callinicos?" (like they'd give Karl Marx a look-in ), and the third thing is "don't vote for the Nazi BNP".

no i i just thought the newspapaer bit went with out saying

 

[brasicritique]

Of course it does. In your fevered imagination, anyway.

The fact is the left has become largely to blame for this mess as its is now based not in communites but within a professional middleclass. Fact.The unions support neo conservative economic policies.Fact.


you and all your chums might aspire to be some sort marters for a cause but i think you are all being selfish. Your politics are not grounded in reality and i would remind you all that this is while the economy is still doing ok in that it has not gone totaslly belly up but if it does

I have yet to see anyone come out with a relevent strategy yet

 

[brasicritique]

yeah right so the oldham united against racism never happened? Actually there the swp were only a small minority- th eonly other organised left force was workers power and we were smaller still. Probably of the activists swp made up only 10%, perhaps of the really hard workers about 30%.
The UAF has lots of problems- part of it may be is its lack of connectedness with working class communities.

But my friends, particualrly but not only Black friends, are definitely concerned about the BNP- to defeat them we need active campaigsn for the working class, community mobilisation against privatisation and housing cuts and no platform for racist BNP.

you were doing well here but then

[/QUOTE]
But you say on that basis my friends who are definitely working class are middle class wankers despite the fact that they are all solidly working class and proud of it as well as being proud of being antifascist and standing up for what is right. Perhaps get back to your comfortable existence where you don't expereince the dauily shit people put up with in working class communities? Or that's how it comes across- I'm alright jack![/QUOTE]

you lost the plot here

 

[TremulousTetra]

The swp are responsible for there own failures . it makes me laugh to think how you expect people to organise with out money time or funding.

t

I'm not expecting you to do anything, except put your own house in order before attacking mine. you offer no alternatives, you as someone who is doing nothing is attacking those who are doing something with inane arguments, such as

i am not critical of uaf i am critical of the anti fascit tactics and to say as one poster has that they are staunchy working classs is a joke

so Marx and Engels were respectably petty bourgeois and bourgeoisie. so I suppose you are going to say their philosophy was not a working class philosophy either?

I don't mind constructive criticism, but there is not anyting constructive in your comments. make some suggestion of how things could be done better.

 

[butchersapron]

NOT MARX and ENGELS!!!!

 

[TremulousTetra]

NOT MARX and ENGELS!!!!

yes I think they quite well illustrate how you don't have to be working class, to carry out develop a working-class strategy. how do you think I've got that wrong? I am really quite mystified with your claim to be an anarchist.

 

[Bakunin]

NOT MARX and ENGELS!!!!

'Marx and Engels, superheroes come to save the world from the scourge of global capitalism...

And sell a few papers.

DA-DA-DAAAAAAAAAAA!'

 

[butchersapron]

yes I think they quite well illustrate how you don't have to be working class, to carry out develop a working-class strategy. how do you think I've got that wrong? I am really quite mystified with your claim to be an anarchist.

It's a lie clearly. Are you making two seperate points or one btw?