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Turkey, ISIS, Kurds and Syria

ViolentPanda said:
Would Erdogan benefit from an internal security problem that would allow him to impose restrictions on freedoms, and on democracy?
IMO of course he would. His grip on power is being loosened through repeated corruption scandals, but he knows (partly because of various "reforms") that the military isn't in the best of shapes to intervene and depose him. A "wave of suicide attacks" would provide him with a perfect excuse to take Turkey toward dictatorship.
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You might be right - I'm discussing, not preaching. We're a long way from the centre, trying to second guess strategies, trying to ascribe motives to man from a class (& country) that's foreign to me, & who has proved unpredictable - Assad wasn't expecting his old holiday pal who addressed him as 'Assad, my brother' to back the opposition.

El Monde Diplo have attempted to ascribe motives here - it's from January this year, but I don't think it's been posted before. Governance comes up again, which was discussed in the other IS thread.

“Where it is managing to entrench itself, IS is delivering on social and cultural issues, which means a kind of governance. Soon they may appear in suits and ties and start talking.”

http://mondediplo.com/2015/01/02turkey
 
Apparently al nusra front (turkeys mates) are attacking the YPG in afrin canton.

http://aranews.net/2015/07/clashes-erupt-between-ypg-and-nusra-near-syrias-afrin/

Interesting goings on there in Syria recently with division 30 going in (the cia funded group of 70) and promptly getting attacked by al nusra front. Made me think its like the CIA arming the jihadis via a very murky way as they know this division 30 group will have a cross hairs on their back from the start although that could me just being paranoid. Previously the other us backed groups were attacked by al nusra and had all their specialized kit looted- which included tow weapons (heat seeking armour piercing missiles) which have helped turn the tide on the assadists in Idlib.
 
2 Soldiers Dead, 24 Wounded in Suicide Attack in Turkey

Kurdish rebels on Sunday rammed an explosives-laden agricultural vehicle at a military police station in eastern Turkey, killing two soldiers and wounding 24 others, authorities said, amid a sharp escalation of violence between the government forces and the autonomy-seeking insurgents.

Militants of the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, used two tons of explosives to attack the station on a highway near the town of Dogubayazit in Agri province, near Turkey's border with Iran, causing extensive damage to the building, the regional governor's office said in a statement. The wounded soldiers were hospitalized but there was no word on their conditions.
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Some 260 PKK members killed in Turkey air strikes

Around 260 members of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) have been killed and hundreds more wounded in Ankara's week-long campaign of air strikes against targets of the group inside Turkey and in northern Iraq, the official Anatolia news agency said on Saturday.

Without citing its sources, Anatolia said that among those wounded was Nurettin Demirtas, the brother of the leader of pro-Kurdish Peoples' Democratic Party (HDP), Selahattin Demirtas.

Ankara has launched a two-pronged "anti-terror" offensive against Islamic State (IS) militants in Syria and Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) militants after a wave of attacks inside the country. But so far the bombardments have focused far more on the Kurdish rebels.
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westcoast1 said:
I thought it was more Turkeys MIT intelligence wing that was actively supporting the jihadis? Thought the army still had some powerful secularists left?
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Yes, the army's split. But that's a major change from 20 or so years ago, when it really was a reliable guarantor of secularism.
 
'kurdish rebel group' just heard on the beeb news. The new line creeps in, fighters and anti-isis forces? no thats not what we will call them now.
 
Yanks are now saying they'll attack anyone who attacks their new force , including SAA , Hizb and probably ypg, which other rebel factions are now clustering around . So..this outfit is the kernel , the yanks claim its solely to attack IS . However if it's embedded amongst allies...who will attack Syria itself...then action against those allies is an attack on the yanks force .
The yanks say they won't engage in offensive actions against Syrian forces....but they'll play this as defensive .
So...if Syrian rebels attack the army..and this anti IS force just happens to be hanging about with them..if the Syrian army retaliate or move in them..then the yanks seem prepared to engage in " defensive action" on their behalf .

Pictures a lot clearer now . Their strategy and Erdogans is one a d the same pretty much . With IS as the causus belli..the excuse . Same end game .
 
Story about PYD willingness to co-operate with Syrian state 'if it commits itself to a democratic future' re-emerges, this time on Al Jazeera. PYD perhaps expressing a preference to remain within a redrawn Syria if partition becomes a reality - if the options are realistically a) degree of autonomy within Syria, b) submerged under a NATO & Turkish controlled buffer, or c) The Caliphate, then it's an understandable choice. But I can't work out how any new map would allow this.
 
Nusra/AQ clearing out of Aleppo province & abandoning front lines across from IS before Turkish/Nato buffer zone implemented, citing musical differences 'not finding it religiously permissible' to work with the Coalition. Nusra statement translated by regularly reliable source Jenan Moussa. Opening line is perhaps most significant -
'Turkey fears national security threat by expansion of PKK from TalAbyad to Afrin, which means Kurdish state on southern border'

 
Reports coming from a few sources that the Turks arrested 6 wounded ypg fighters....all named. recuperating in Istanbul and deported them back to Syria . Through an al nusra held border crossing . Basically handed them to waiting executioners / butchers .
 
Casually Red said:
Reports coming from a few sources that the Turks arrested 6 wounded ypg fighters....all named. recuperating in Istanbul and deported them back to Syria . Through an al nusra held border crossing . Basically handed them to waiting executioners / butchers .
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Link is here:

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1262695

One for the "that's fucked up" file, definitely.

A point I wanted to make about the claims of YPG ethnic cleansing. For the past two decades whenever that has taken place in the Balkans, the ME or Africa, the reports have usually followed this pattern, or something like it: "My name is X from the village of Y. On such and such a date, soldiers from militia Z entered my village and took away my neighbour and his sons, whose names are A, B, C, and D. No one has seen them since".

In other words, there are always at least some details which give the story legs - has there been anything similar in the case of the claims made against the YPG?
 
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-shots-fired-us-consulate-police-station-bomb

Two women from a banned Marxist group opened fire at the US consulate in Istanbul on Monday, in the latest of a wave of attacks to hit Turkey following its decision to step up military action against Islamic State (Isis).

The assailants set off a gunfight with police before fleeing the scene, Turkish media reported. One of them – 51-year-old Hatice As ik– was captured hiding in a nearby building and taken to hospital. A second female suspect escaped. No one else was injured.

According to Turkish news agencies, citing police sources, Asik is a member of the far-left Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party-Front, or DHKP-C. In 2013 the group carried out a suicide attack on the US embassy in Ankara that killed a security guard.

The group said in a statement that Asik was a “people’s warrior” and confirmed she had been arrested. “Our struggle will continue until imperialism and its collaborators leave our country and every parcel of our homeland is cleared of US bases,” it said.


:eek:

Surely not the sparts?? :eek: ;)
 
Idris2002 said:
Link is here:

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1262695

One for the "that's fucked up" file, definitely.

A point I wanted to make about the claims of YPG ethnic cleansing. For the past two decades whenever that has taken place in the Balkans, the ME or Africa, the reports have usually followed this pattern, or something like it: "My name is X from the village of Y. On such and such a date, soldiers from militia Z entered my village and took away my neighbour and his sons, whose names are A, B, C, and D. No one has seen them since".

In other words, there are always at least some details which give the story legs - has there been anything similar in the case of the claims made against the YPG?
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It's not a story I've been lending much credence to really . But a few weeks back I was reading some Reddit postings by a wounded Kurdish fighter who's been posting on kobane for quite a while now . He talked about it a bit and said that once they'd set fire to an arab house because it was booby trapped and then the whole row burned down by mistake . And that in turn had a very negative effect in that locality . He then also said something about Arabs fleeing in advance from villages they'd retaken , and how it distressed him because there was no call for it . So if that's legit..and he strikes me as a legit witness..then there does seem to be a fear amongst some Arab communities . But that's a very different thing from an ethnic cleansing policy .

There was also some stuff I was reading a while back about two localised clashes between ypg and the NDF , who were their ostensible local allies . One broke out after pictures emerged on social media of the Syrian flag being desecrated by Ypg, which went down pretty badly with the locals . Thankfully there weren't any fatalities though and it was smoothed over .A bit more serious though was the other one, were some Ypg members just basically murdered a local Arab NDF militia leader after inviting him to a meeting . That caused uproar because the guy was a very popular local fighter .Ypg put the killers on trial and convicted them but local reports were unhappy about a supposed lenient sentence . Although the leniency of the sentence is disputed .

So if that's anything to go by there may well have been some localised and individual fucking about , indiscipline and ethnic chauvinism from some individual Ypg units and members . Which will happen pretty much in any war . And that may well have been seized upon and amplified as propaganda to give the impression of a wider organised policy . That's how it looks to me anyway . There's been a barrage of lies since this thing kicked off .

It's a while since I've read that stuff but if I come across it again I'll post the links. I don't believe there's any such policy but there seems to be a fear and some actions by individual ypg haven't helped matters . Also not helping matters are some ypg fanboy correspondents who push an incessant line of its only the ypg who are fighting IS while the cowardly Arabs and their armies and militias just run away . And also correspondents and twtterers posting up bollocks reports about the ypg issuing surrender or die ultimatums to local NDF militias and the like . Stuff that seems to be motivated by Ypg supporters unable to accept the NDF and the like are on the same side in many respects .That's racist and chauvinistic shite that's not backed up by events on the ground . And only exacerbates localised differences .
There definitely seems to be a problem of sorts there , and thats hardly surprising given the chaos, but it doesn't strike me as ethnic cleansing or anything remotely approaching that .
 
DotCommunist said:
the source for the ethnic cleansing story run uncritically in the telegaraph was a single woman from an unamed NGO.
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Well now they've got all 15 of the main rebel groups in an alliance to back that propaganda up saying the very same thing . As well as the turkish government . With the US govt expressing " concern" And they'll have their local supporters to parrot it as well . The simple fact is though there haven't been any massacres by the Kurds . So while there has probably ...definitely..been some individual bollocking about on the Kurdish side the overall story is a fabrication .
 
Casually Red said:
It's not a story I've been lending much credence to really . But a few weeks back I was reading some Reddit postings by a wounded Kurdish fighter who's been posting on kobane for quite a while now . He talked about it a bit and said that once they'd set fire to an arab house because it was booby trapped and then the whole row burned down by mistake . And that in turn had a very negative effect in that locality . He then also said something about Arabs fleeing in advance from villages they'd retaken , and how it distressed him because there was no call for it . So if that's legit..and he strikes me as a legit witness..then there does seem to be a fear amongst some Arab communities . But that's a very different thing from an ethnic cleansing policy .

There was also some stuff I was reading a while back about two localised clashes between ypg and the NDF , who were their ostensible local allies . One broke out after pictures emerged on social media of the Syrian flag being desecrated by Ypg, which went down pretty badly with the locals . Thankfully there weren't any fatalities though and it was smoothed over .A bit more serious though was the other one, were some Ypg members just basically murdered a local Arab NDF militia leader after inviting him to a meeting . That caused uproar because the guy was a very popular local fighter .Ypg put the killers on trial and convicted them but local reports were unhappy about a supposed lenient sentence . Although the leniency of the sentence is disputed .

So if that's anything to go by there may well have been some localised and individual fucking about , indiscipline and ethnic chauvinism from some individual Ypg units and members . Which will happen pretty much in any war . And that may well have been seized upon and amplified as propaganda to give the impression of a wider organised policy . That's how it looks to me anyway . There's been a barrage of lies since this thing kicked off .

It's a while since I've read that stuff but if I come across it again I'll post the links. I don't believe there's any such policy but there seems to be a fear and some actions by individual ypg haven't helped matters . Also not helping matters are some ypg fanboy correspondents who push an incessant line of its only the ypg who are fighting IS while the cowardly Arabs and their armies and militias just run away . And also correspondents and twtterers posting up bollocks reports about the ypg issuing surrender or die ultimatums to local NDF militias and the like . Stuff that seems to be motivated by Ypg supporters unable to accept the NDF and the like are on the same side in many respects .That's racist and chauvinistic shite that's not backed up by events on the ground . And only exacerbates localised differences .
There definitely seems to be a problem of sorts there , and thats hardly surprising given the chaos, but it doesn't strike me as ethnic cleansing or anything remotely approaching that .
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And presumably as the YPG advance there will be incidents of citizens who profited from IS occupation clearing off before the neighbours point the finger & implement justice - 'driven out by communist terrorists' probably plays better in a refugee camp than 'had to fuck off because I took over a house/shop/prime pitch on the market that had belonged to a Yazidi family'.
 
one article I read- that brecher chap I think so usual caveats apply- made the point that civs in warzones tend to do a lot of fleeing or else, so its no wonder people are getting the fuck out of dodge anytime armed people show up. Less deliberate population displacement more the well honed survival instincts of people in a multi faction war.
 
frogwoman said:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-shots-fired-us-consulate-police-station-bomb

Two women from a banned Marxist group opened fire at the US consulate in Istanbul on Monday, in the latest of a wave of attacks to hit Turkey following its decision to step up military action against Islamic State (Isis).

The assailants set off a gunfight with police before fleeing the scene, Turkish media reported. One of them – 51-year-old Hatice As ik– was captured hiding in a nearby building and taken to hospital. A second female suspect escaped. No one else was injured.

According to Turkish news agencies, citing police sources, Asik is a member of the far-left Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party-Front, or DHKP-C. In 2013 the group carried out a suicide attack on the US embassy in Ankara that killed a security guard.

The group said in a statement that Asik was a “people’s warrior” and confirmed she had been arrested. “Our struggle will continue until imperialism and its collaborators leave our country and every parcel of our homeland is cleared of US bases,” it said.


:eek:

Surely not the sparts?? :eek: ;)
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There's an interesting short Vice film about this mob - shall I dig out the link, or have you seen it?
 
Patteran said:
And presumably as the YPG advance there will be incidents of citizens who profited from IS occupation clearing off before the neighbours point the finger & implement justice - 'driven out by communist terrorists' probably plays better in a refugee camp than 'had to fuck off because I took over a house/shop/prime pitch on the market that had belonged to a Yazidi family'.
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It's a simple fact of life that there will have been villages that in the main supported and even participated in what IS was doing . The ypg will have lists of those who were acting the bollocks . Those people will get the fuck out of dodge along with their families . And their houses will probably get put to the torch to dissuade them from coming back any time soon . Because IS are an extremely dangerous , murderous outfit and basic security concerns will necessitate that . But that's not ethnic cleansing by any means .
 
Patteran said:
And presumably as the YPG advance there will be incidents of citizens who profited from IS occupation clearing off before the neighbours point the finger & implement justice - 'driven out by communist terrorists' probably plays better in a refugee camp than 'had to fuck off because I took over a house/shop/prime pitch on the market that had belonged to a Yazidi family'.
Click to expand...
I know someone who was in DRC the day Kabila entered Kinshasa. This was a town at the other end of the country, and on that day there was a hand grenade attack on a local bar. Probably for local motives but taking advantage of the big story of the day.
 
Patteran said:
There's an interesting short Vice film about this mob - shall I dig out the link, or have you seen it?
Click to expand...

I first encountered their political wing at some meetings in belfast a good many years back when they were on mass hunger strike in the Turkish prisons . Horrific death toll and not all from starvation . A lot of them were burned and crushed alive too .
They're pretty hardcore, to put it mildly . Like the Kurds ,women fighters have always been prominent with them too . Their supporters would have been among those killed in that suicide bombing and individual members would be in there fighting alongside the Kurds

One of their former leaders is running a Marxist Leninist guerilla group in Latakia , fighting on the Syrian side naturally .

syrian-che.jpg


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