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Turkey, ISIS, Kurds and Syria

agricola said:
Probably. I do wonder though whether or not the coming US Presidential election, combined with Erdogan demonstrating very publically to them that he is worth absolutely nothing to the Yanks, might just make them think that a Kurdish state with no other real options is going to be the best bet for them to put their regional bases in (or rather, more of their bases in).
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the cantons would niether be considered nor would take them. Barzani's KRG and the peshmerga who apparently won the seige of kobani- people we can work with
 
This Turkish news report claims that IS have been filmed loading up a truck a kilometre or so inside Turkish territory in broad daylight . Filming it live as it happens .

http://www.ntv.com.tr/video/turkiye/isid-militanlari-turkiye-sinirinda,_nYk5oq8_kayRSnn8B8f5g

In full view of a nearby Turkish army post too . If that report is true we can safely conclude turkeys war against IS is completely farcical . And that they're a Turkish asset in Syria , just like the other terrorist groups .
 
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Casually Red said:
I wouldn't dismiss it so quickly if this article is anything to go by .

http://mebriefing.com/?p=1825


Personally I find it interesting that it was around the same time as this alleged meeting occurring that the pro rebel media , and their friends in the west , began circulating stories of Kurds committing ethnic cleansing . Accusations that are still being made .

If the Kurds are going to be stuck between the hammer of IS and the anvil of erdogan they're going to be completely fucked without the sponsorship of a state actor . It's a simple calculation .
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i understand that the PYD operate a general policy of 'peace where we can, fight if we must', & that ceasefire arrangements, sometimes fragile, exist currently between them & the regime, particularly in the northern enclaves. And I also understand that the reported provisos of autonomy & 'de-baathification' are significant - but with no accredited source, it's just rumour - & a rumour that suits Erdogan as he goes into this emergency NATO meeting.
 
Patteran said:
i understand that the PYD operate a general policy of 'peace where we can, fight if we must', & that ceasefire arrangements, sometimes fragile, exist currently between them & the regime, particularly in the northern enclaves. And I also understand that the reported provisos of autonomy & 'de-baathification' are significant - but with no accredited source, it's just rumour - & a rumour that suits Erdogan as he goes into this emergency NATO meeting.
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At the minute the PYD and the army are engaged in a joint offensive against IS in Hasakeh , which is a bit more substantial than a ceasefire arrangement . And definitely not a rumour .They also demanded the Syrian army supply them with weapons . And the Syrians obliged .

And what's going to happen for sure is the Kurds are going to be tanked by a joint Turkish and rebel campaign against them . Involving more than just IS . From the very outset of this conflict leading FSA figures , such as Colonel Okaidi ...the guy who oversaw a joint IS FSA assault on Menagh airbase were openly talking about smashing the PKK . I don't think they're going to have much choice on this one . Erdogan and his rebel mates will be making that decision for them I reckon .
 
Casually Red said:
At the minute the PYD and the army are engaged in a joint offensive against IS in Hasakeh , which is a bit more substantial than a ceasefire arrangement . And definitely not a rumour .They also demanded the Syrian army supply them with weapons . And the Syrians obliged .

And what's going to happen for sure is the Kurds are going to be tanked by a joint Turkish and rebel campaign against them . Involving more than just IS . From the very outset of this conflict leading FSA figures , such as Colonel Okaidi ...the guy who oversaw a joint IS FSA assault on Menagh airbase were openly talking about smashing the PKK . I don't think they're going to have much choice on this one . Erdogan and his rebel mates will be making that decision for them I reckon .
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At the risk of saying something unhelpfully vague, there does seem to be a realignment taking place around the conflict - Barzani allowing Erdogan to bomb the PKK in the KRG, Erdogan opening up a base for the Yanks, & reports tonight of Turkish air strikes against the YPG near Kobani. Shit's escalating round the edges.
 
Patteran said:
At the risk of saying something unhelpfully vague, there does seem to be a realignment taking place around the conflict - Barzani allowing Erdogan to bomb the PKK in the KRG, Erdogan opening up a base for the Yanks, & reports tonight of Turkish air strikes against the YPG near Kobani. Shit's escalating round the edges.
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Tanks according to this

 
Patteran said:
Breaking on twitter, sources arabic & turkish only so far - PYD/YPG offering accommodation with Regime in return for autonomy of cantons & de-baathification of SAA.

Significant news if true.



Eta - could well be sensationalist translation of hypothetical 'if syria was democratic' suggestion

Another edit - i think this narrative suits the Turkish military, & should be disregarded without further substantiation.
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Self referential reply to my own post -

Seemingly reliable Kurdish commentator R3sho has translated the interview with Salih Muslim, & summarised the contents very differently, calling the 'YPG to join SAA' claim 'a complete fabrication'.
 
This stuff here is aimed at the HDP i suspct. Erdogan wants kurds in turkey to riot etc then the HDP be forced to defend them, then he calls off his negotiations and new elections follow and conservative kurd voters to abstain or vote against the HDP.
 
Casually Red said:
Personally I find it interesting that it was around the same time as this alleged meeting occurring that the pro rebel media , and their friends in the west , began circulating stories of Kurds committing ethnic cleansing . Accusations that are still being made .
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Yeah by you.
 
brogdale said:
Looks like Erdogan has played the yanks like a fiddle. Yes, you can use Incilik to bomb the fuck out of the beardies...but I'm gonna have my own war whilst you're at it.
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Erdogan--or rather the ordinary people of Turkey--may yet pay a high price for Incilik. IS threatened to send fifty suicide bombers to Istanbul if he allowed the USA to use the air base.
 
agricola said:
Probably. I do wonder though whether or not the coming US Presidential election, combined with Erdogan demonstrating very publically to them that he is worth absolutely nothing to the Yanks, might just make them think that a Kurdish state with no other real options is going to be the best bet for them to put their regional bases in (or rather, more of their bases in).
Click to expand...

It's not up to the USA. An independent Kurdish state is impossible unless Turkey gives the green light. There's currently no reason to think they'll ever be inclined to do that.
 
phildwyer said:
Erdogan--or rather the ordinary people of Turkey--may yet pay a high price for Incilik. IS threatened to send fifty suicide bombers to Istanbul if he allowed the USA to use the air base.
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Maybe, but it is obvious which group of ordinary people are immediately paying the price.
 
Patteran said:
i understand that the PYD operate a general policy of 'peace where we can, fight if we must', & that ceasefire arrangements, sometimes fragile, exist currently between them & the regime, particularly in the northern enclaves. And I also understand that the reported provisos of autonomy & 'de-baathification' are significant - but with no accredited source, it's just rumour - & a rumour that suits Erdogan as he goes into this emergency NATO meeting.
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Here's what the Syrian minister for reconciliation had to say on the matter of co operation with the Kurds earlier in the year

http://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/syria/19042015
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/28/w...r-isis-from-strip-of-northern-syria.html?_r=0

BAGHDAD — Turkey and the United States have agreed in general terms on a plan that envisions American warplanes, Syrian insurgents and Turkish forces working together to sweep Islamic State militants from a 60-mile-long strip of northern Syria along the Turkish border, American and Turkish officials say.

The plan would create what officials from both countries are calling an Islamic State-free zone controlled by relatively moderate Syrian insurgents, which the Turks say could also be a “safe zone” for displaced Syrians.

While many details have yet to be determined, including how deep the strip would extend into Syria, the plan would significantly intensify American and Turkish military action against Islamic State militants in the country, as well as the United States’ coordination with Syrian insurgents on the ground. The plan was described in recent days by four senior American officials, who were briefed on the talks and spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss operational planning.
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Worrying news for Rojava.
 
Casually Red said:
Global research lifted it directly from Al masdar , as indicated in the link on the site. Google also has a translate function . I don't really care if you doubt it or not .
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Heh, if you'd actually looked at the Al Masadar link you'd have discovered that it's english language (as should I before I asked you if you could read Turkish). Anyway I asked the translator on Twitter if the report is genuine:

Alamet#HandsOffSyria‏@Alamet0 Yes, the kidnapping, arrest, sentencing and escape from prison are known facts. For the rest we have the guy's word.
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mind you (s)he thinks Globalresearch is hardly a conspiracy site which is the thing I had a problem with
 
J Ed said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/28/w...r-isis-from-strip-of-northern-syria.html?_r=0



Worrying news for Rojava.
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Absolutely no mention of the people from the wrong side of the political spectrum who have done a lot of fighting and dying. Drives me insane that the only mention of kurdish forces in our main news is peshmerga this and peshmerga that. The defence of kobani, the rescue of the sinjar mnt stranded yazidi (who were initially abandoned by Peshmerga and not left so much as a pistol to fight with). All just never happened.
 
DotCommunist said:
Absolutely no mention of the people from the wrong side of the political spectrum who have done a lot of fighting and dying. Drives me insane that the only mention of kurdish forces in our main news is peshmerga this and peshmerga that. The defence of kobani, the rescue of the sinjar mnt stranded yazidi (who were initially abandoned by Peshmerga and not left so much as a pistol to fight with). All just never happened.
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There is trouble ahead it'll be kurd vs kurd again very soon if the plans of that part of the Turkish state taking the active role right now work out - and not on revolutionary class basis but on a sectarian defence of chiefs basis.
 
DotCommunist said:
Absolutely no mention of the people from the wrong side of the political spectrum who have done a lot of fighting and dying. Drives me insane that the only mention of kurdish forces in our main news is peshmerga this and peshmerga that. The defence of kobani, the rescue of the sinjar mnt stranded yazidi (who were initially abandoned by Peshmerga and not left so much as a pistol to fight with). All just never happened.
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And the term " relatively moderate " is born .
 
teqniq said:
Heh, if you'd actually looked at the Al Masadar link you'd have discovered that it's english language (as should I before I asked you if you could read Turkish). Anyway I asked the translator on Twitter if the report is genuine:



mind you (s)he thinks Globalresearch is hardly a conspiracy site which is the thing I had a problem with
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I read al masdar everyday . The reason I used that link was because it had the translation on one page as opposed to in 2 parts .As well as the link to the original Turkish interview .
 
Casually Red said:
And the term " relatively moderate " is born .
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it still gets my goat that several hundred commie kurds and several foriegn fighters fell in the defense of kobani (and the ypg/j have the honour to call them all martyrs) but one, uno, the first number, the singular. One peshmerga fighter died in that fight, late as they were to proceedings. Yet the whole whitewash here is that peshmerga run tings, peshmerga sort it out. Our people, the military wing of the KRG, yeah they solved everything.

Its just bullshit.
 
butchersapron said:
There is trouble ahead it'll be kurd vs kurd again very soon if the plans of that part of the Turkish state taking the active role right now work out - and not on revolutionary class basis but on a sectarian defence of chiefs basis.
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you recon Barzani's crew will throw the lefty kurds under the bus (and by bus I mean turkish forces operating under other pretences)?
 
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