Turkey, ISIS, Kurds and Syria
- Thread starter frogwoman
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DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Militarily NATO forces would take them apart- its not an even fight here. If the political will manifested itself and they went in boots first the daesh would probably give good account of themselves but theres just a point where overwhelming superiority in arms, equipment, training and numbers leave you fucked. IS a scary militia and skilled in the art of irregular warfare. Yes. Able to stand up to a modern army with only murder and revenge on their objectives sheet? fucked. Look at fallujah.
But they won't go in IMHO and I think thats for the best. Its not like our 'humanitarian' interventions actually did anything other than help foster the beds from which daesh grew.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
its worth remembering what level of support network is needed to maintain this gear as well frogs. Tanks and soldiers and planes are the tip of a spear, if you have no shaft behind it- no ground crew for your two comedy planes, no replacement parts for your tanks and nobody willing to sell you the replacement parts. And you will need them. Well what then. The idea of NATO forces going in on daesh and coming off worse is just not logical. Get a mualing? few lads and lasses going home in body bags? for sure. But there isn't any way they could really stop a full assault.
Not that I want it to happen. Our sainted soldiers and their taskmasters are very good at the whole 'defeat the armed might of the enemy' thing but they've never displayed much competence in the 'rebuild all the shit you just blew up and get the locals onside' front.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Yeah of course we'd win in the end but before we did a lot of soldiers would get killed DotCommunist
i didnt mean wed lose but we may pay an unacceptably high price if we did go in as well as get sidetracked into doing stuff that was nothing to do with it
You could be sure the likes of turkey and saudi arabia would try to influence the mission too
i didnt mean wed lose but we may pay an unacceptably high price if we did go in as well as get sidetracked into doing stuff that was nothing to do with it
You could be sure the likes of turkey and saudi arabia would try to influence the mission too
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
god yeah, a multi factional war in which you are just another faction. 22 years old, hard trained and fucking good at soldiering. All comes apart in the aftermath. You've had your training, you've had your briefing, but what the fuck do you really know of the people and the terrain? It requires experienced negotiators and people who are not young, hungry for war and given one. I can't forget one of my closest mates telling me 'battles where you get promotions quick'. And he was navy ffs! bad attitude to have. It's why I never advocate military solutions done by 'our' military. These people are wanting the war. You shouldn't want the war. And then they come home missing a hand, ridden with PTSD and having seen a mate blown up by an IED on the roadside. I dunno I just get so sad sometimes, seeing them fucking fools proud in their uniforms off to fight..whatever the man says he should. TBH come the day I will be purging everyone at the MOD. They just don't give a shit. They don't care if the intervention works, they don't care how many die on either side and they just care about flogging weapons and treating everyone like they are just pieces of shit.
/rant
not-bono-ever
meh
I dont think there is the will for further politically unacceptable deaths (I.e. ours). They can focus on topping al bahgdadi now -even though it will make little real difference to the region.but makes good copy.
like the whole economic system at the minute,I dont think there is any kind of plan from our elected leaders. We seem to be winging this on a day by day basis - utterly fucking rubbish - everything we do is a reaction - no strategy.
like the whole economic system at the minute,I dont think there is any kind of plan from our elected leaders. We seem to be winging this on a day by day basis - utterly fucking rubbish - everything we do is a reaction - no strategy.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Well what if we went in to fight daesh and got shot at by the assad regime or caught in a barrel bomb? Or al nusra or one of those cuddly ex FSA groups? Or what if turkey/saudi leant on us to disengage from a particular battlefield? All sorts of shit could go wrong particularly if there was no/little local backup
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Does anyone know where he is tho?
not-bono-ever
meh
the cynic in me would say that his location will be revealed when his expediency is confirmed by the rest of the bad puppies nas a means of gaining space and time
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
wouldn't matter. 'our' forces treat soldiers like tools. When they break, you get a new one. It's the old one of 'what does victory look like? was this what you wanted?' as you look at the body of a fifteen YO conscript bleeding out on the ground and weakly calling for mum. She aint coming mate.
NATO could crush daesh tomorrow but it would cost badly in blood
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
but surely the caliph would need be there for a caliphate to exist? who else could take over and also command the loyalty of jihadis?
not-bono-ever
meh
not-bono-ever
meh
I know, but I dont underestimate the organisational ability of these cunts to have plan B, C and D ready to be rolled out
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
loads of leaders have proper degrees. Putin has a law degree. Its a peculiarity here that we allow chinless wankers with a shiny PPE to govern. God even Brown has a proper Economics degree. For all the good it did us.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Its the fact that hes obviously researched how to do all of this so thoroughly and ensured its 'in accordance' with islam. That hes managed to fit it to do whatever he wants. In the quran iirc it forbids burning to someone to death as a punishment but hes managed to find a passage that one could interpret that way.
i heard once that strictly speaking according to sharia law the punishments for adultery etc should be almost impossible to carry out as three witnesses should be needed to for example actually see them having sex. and that in theory actually putting someone to death should be almost impossible due to all the conditions that have to be met.
does anyone know anything about the previous caliphates, surely they didn't resemble this one very much as they managed to hold territory for a couple of hundred years in relative stability without anyone rising up and destroying them. The ottoman empire was a caliphate wasn't it, and for most of its history treated people under its rule no better or worse than france, britain etc?
Was about to write: if you find a mustard shell that was mislaid in the English countryside in 1944, you are advised to stay well clear.
Fuchs66
Ring a ding
Probably wise!
NYT said:
Statement of what's been bleeding obvious for months - but with interviews and in the New York Times. Well done, probably.
But what effect is this going to have on poltical responses? Months ago I toyed with the idea of trying to bring it to wider attention, but am glad I chickened out...
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
So did Ian paisley
Fuchs66
Ring a ding
Unlikely for a lot of reasons!
The answer to this is very, very long and complicated...
Taking the Ottoman as an example of how complicated and contradictory: on the one hand the Ottoman miliyet system offered a fair degree of self-governing safety to minorities, most of the time. Salonica became a haven for Jews expelled from Iberia...
On the other, the late Ottoman rulers organised the genocide of the Armenian and Assyrian minorities...
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frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Yea thats why i said most of its history rather than all of it...
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
One thing the US media seemed very keen to keep quiet from thr american public was kayla muellers relief work on behalf of the Palestinians . Not that it escaped the attentions of some prominent pro zionists though . Ive just noticed this collection of their vile, sick minded commentary when they heard reports of her death .
https://electronicintifada.net/blog...ate-death-islamic-state-hostage-kayla-mueller
Beggars belief frankly
You're overlooking the fact that Daesh's main tactic would be blowing up civilians in London.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I recall the first time I visited London post 7/7. Some years after. And I saw copper with them submachine guns standing outside an embassy. I think it was an embassy. There were flags anyway. It shocked me to see policemen casually armed with such equipment. Of course its the old 'we only have to be lucky once, you have to be lucky all the time' but I think London is fairly secure. If I was an evil minded bastard I'd be striking softer targets. Market town in surrey or something.
I've never been able to work out how a cop with a H&K is supposed to stop a determined suicide bomber with a truckload of ANFO.
Now, I have to go and hand myself in at Paddington Green copshop, since my brain contains information that might be useful to a terrorist.
But first, I hand myself in to the National Theatre for having identified a key piece of the, er, national theatre.
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