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Turkey, ISIS, Kurds and Syria

One thing they can learn is some of those foreign war tourists they have over there with them are a complete bunch of assholes that should be disarmed and sent home in disgrace .
This is what some of them get up to for the laugh

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If that's what they're like with each other god knows what danger their antics prove to civilians . Bad enough they did it at all but the idiot had the bloody thing on auto as well and loosed off an extra round they werent expecting . Not to mention the fact that the Kurds are short of resources as it is . And there's a perfectly good ballistic plate , that could have saved a genuine Kurdish fighters life , just fucking ruined so they can piss around on camera playing jackass .

Fucking twats , out there on safari just so they can pose with guns on Facebook . In the middle of those people's agony .
 
Casually Red said:
One thing they can learn is some of those foreign war tourists they have over there with them are a complete bunch of assholes that should be disarmed and sent home in disgrace .
This is what some of them get up to for the laugh

.
Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

If that's what they're like with each other god knows what danger their antics prove to civilians . Bad enough they did it at all but the idiot had the bloody thing on auto as well and loosed off an extra round they werent expecting . Not to mention the fact that the Kurds are short of resources as it is . And there's a perfectly good ballistic plate , that could have saved a genuine Kurdish fighters life , just fucking ruined so they can piss around on camera playing jackass .

Fucking twats , out there on safari just so they can pose with guns on Facebook . In the middle of those people's agony .
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That is one of the most moronic things I've seen for a while. Although people (well, mainly men with power and guns) do odd things when under stress in war, and now the wonders of the internet let us all see them. But yes, there are more than a few non-Kurdish people NOT behaving like that and being more useful.

Edited to add for interest: http://www.peshmergalegion.com/
 
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if these idiot types were over there to help daesh they'd be given a smile, a bulky jacket stuffed with plastique and a target to walk towards. At least the ypg/j have the decencey to tell the wide eyed liabilities to go home and support the cause from afar with talking and fundraising and such like
 
DotCommunist said:
if these idiot types were over there to help daesh they'd be given a smile, a bulky jacket stuffed with plastique and a target to walk towards. At least the ypg/j have the decencey to tell the wide eyed liabilities to go home and support the cause from afar with talking and fundraising and such like
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Yeah they have kicked a few people out, but like I said there's a fair few they haven't who are being useful. AFAIK they have been putting people through training, and also grouping people into units with common languages to increase their effectiveness. I mean it's never going to be the thing that tips the balance in their favor but it's useful.

It's also patronizing and wrong to assume that just because people are from 'the west' that they're useless, and if people are Kurdish they have some innate guerrilla warfare skillz. Pretty much anyone can reach a level where they're useful after a few weeks of good training - although I accept it might take a bit longer to de-idiot some folks!
 
LynnDoyleCooper said:
It's also patronizing and wrong to assume that just because people are from 'the west' that they're useless
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not something I've assumed tbf mate, I've met some scary fuckers and grown up with people who joined navy, paras etc. My point was more towards those who go out with honourable zeal but no discernable combat skills except a few wet weekends in wales with the army cadets when they were 12.
 
Yeah, wasn't aimed at you specifically, sorry if it seemed like it was, was just making a half asleep point. And wait, what... war isn't like paintballing just with louder noises?
 
LynnDoyleCooper said:
It's also patronizing and wrong to assume that just because people are from 'the west' that they're useless, and if people are Kurdish they have some innate guerrilla warfare skillz. Pretty much anyone can reach a level where they're useful after a few weeks of good training - although I accept it might take a bit longer to de-idiot some folks!
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone suggested they'd no military experience . I merely pointed out there seems to be a high preponderance of fuckwits ...and that's an example of it . There seems to be a great many of them who are not only selfie and Facebook obsessed but are attracted to journos like a moth to a flame . Like its an adventure holiday with the opportunity to indulge ego thrown in .
I can't help contrasting that with some of the accountsive read from an injured Kurdish fighter who was recuperating in hospital . He once spoke of the aftermath of an engagement with IS in kobane and how there were western journalists going from unit to unit looking interviews . Basically none of the kurdish fighters said a single word to them, they were all too numbed with shock . The thought of these self important tosspots jumping in front of cameras and microphones bigging themselves up on the back of that agony just boils my piss . I'll accept they aren't all like that but there's a right few who are and it only attracts more . And for that messing with the plate they should have been taken round the corner and kneecapped frankly . Disgraceful .
 
teqniq said:
Armed group Women’s Freedom Force declared in Turkey
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You see this a lot amongst the Turkish left, hyperbolic pseudo-Maoist statements that sound good in theory but absolutely have no practical relevance. It's nothing to write home about. Ironically they tend to commodify the women revolutionaries they uphold and cite as influences most of the time.

Most women in Turkey (with the exception of diyarbakir and PKK strongholds) uphold the bourgeois democratic state, and indeed this groups philistine antifascism achieves exactly the same, but let's not go there. The Turkish state has nothing to fear from these people. It might look cool to westerners who think we are unable to masturbate but people don't support these people because they're clear-headed revolutionaries, but because they're sick of neoliberal and AKP hegemony. It's what I hate about western leftist reporting. Why not get people who actually speak the language, who live there and talk to ordinary people? Why pretend to be experts when you're not?
 
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dialectician said:
You see this a lot amongst the Turkish left, hyperbolic pseudo-Maoist statements that sound good in theory but absolutely have no practical relevance. It's nothing to write home about. Ironically they tend to commodify the women revolutionaries they uphold and cite as influences most of the time.

Most women in Turkey (with the exception of diyarbakir and PKK strongholds) uphold the bourgeois democratic state, and indeed this groups philistine antifascism achieves exactly the same, but let's not go there. The Turkish state has nothing to fear from these people. It might look cool to westerners who think we are unable to masturbate but people don't support these people because they're clear-headed revolutionaries, but because they're sick of neoliberal and AKP hegemony. It's what I hate about western leftist reporting. Why not get people who actually speak the language, who live there and talk to ordinary people? Why pretend to be experts when you're not?
Click to expand...

Very well said. Some of the most egregious examples are to be found on these boards.
 
dialectician said:
You see this a lot amongst the Turkish left, hyperbolic pseudo-Maoist statements that sound good in theory but absolutely have no practical relevance. It's nothing to write home about. Ironically they tend to commodify the women revolutionaries they uphold and cite as influences most of the time.

Most women in Turkey (with the exception of diyarbakir and PKK strongholds) uphold the bourgeois democratic state, and indeed this groups philistine antifascism achieves exactly the same, but let's not go there. The Turkish state has nothing to fear from these people. It might look cool to westerners who think we are unable to masturbate but people don't support these people because they're clear-headed revolutionaries, but because they're sick of neoliberal and AKP hegemony. It's what I hate about western leftist reporting. Why not get people who actually speak the language, who live there and talk to ordinary people? Why pretend to be experts when you're not?
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What you reckon about that Maoist group that assassinated a Turkish prosecutor but it turned out a former British Marxist called Mark Victorystooge was working inside the group as a spy for the German Intelligence Services?

http://www.dailysabah.com/investiga...-terror-probe-works-for-german-spy-agency-bnd

http://socialistunity.com/what-ever-happened-to-mark-victorystooge/

Long term readers of this blog may remember an individual who posted comments under the pseudonym “Mark Victorystooge”, real name Steve Kaszynski. His comments were often inflammatory, boasting of his exploits fighting the Turkish police, and advocating militant direct action. I once accused him of being a provocateur, and possible a spook (I am also informed that he previously used to work at GCHQ). Shortly after I suggested this about him, he stopped posting comments here.

This is what happened next (4th April 2014). British citizen detained in DHKP-C terror probe works for German spy agency BND
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Surprised it werent mentioned here ...
 
frogwoman said:
What you reckon about that Maoist group that assassinated a Turkish prosecutor but it turned out a former British Marxist called Mark Victorystooge was working inside the group as a spy for the German Intelligence Services?

http://www.dailysabah.com/investiga...-terror-probe-works-for-german-spy-agency-bnd

http://socialistunity.com/what-ever-happened-to-mark-victorystooge/



Surprised it werent mentioned here ...
Click to expand...

DHKP-C have always been extremely suspect. They have been known to murder their own comrades in prison, and enforce an extreme cult-like mentality. Definitely have some ties to the Kemalist state and other national states (Germany and the US spring to mind.)
 
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phildwyer said:
Very well said. Some of the most egregious examples are to be found on these boards.
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It's because they fetishise democracy as an eternal principle.

Democracy is, as I take all forms of government to be, a contradiction in itself, an untruth, nothing but hypocrisy (theology, as we Germans call it), at the bottom. Political liberty is sham-liberty, the worst possible slavery; the appearance of liberty, and therefore the reality of servitude. Political equality is the same; therefore democracy, as well as every other form of government, must ultimately break to pieces: hypocrisy cannot subsist, the contradiction hidden in it must come out; we must have either a regular slavery — that is, an undisguised despotism, or real liberty, and real equality — that is, Communism.
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You think this quote is from Amadeo Bordiga and the Italian left communists?

nope. Engels


And because they don't combine democracy understood as 1) demos kratos - from the people to power 2) the parliamentary system and 3) all of these combined in the simple formulation majority rule. If you pay close attention you can see that democracy in and of itself is bureaucratic and stifles a true debating culture.

This allows leftists to cheer on anti-fascists and participate in popular fronts, united fronts and the like. Never mind that the majority of these turkish-kurdish marxist organisations came out of the left bourgeois democracy of the post 1960s CHP or were based on its programme - a merger of kemalism with soviet/Chinese Stalinism. It matters not whether the PKK have made a libertarian turn. Until they make a criticism of democracy - they will end up proving my point that they are in some form Stalinists. If you speak to any serious Stalinist (I grant there are few in the UK these days) they will cite the 1936 constitution as evidence of the USSR being a democratic state. But for us party majority is an absolute sham, we must work tirelessly to transcend the principle of majority decision making. Only in circumstances of absolute emergency should we employ this mechanism - it's not something to be idealised! A minority perspective deserves overemphasis if it is the correct perspective. You can call this freedom of debate (contrasted against the bourgeois formulation freedom of speech) and I'd agree with you, but don't pretend its democracy when it isn't.

Another irony of antifascism is that it merges with the democratic state when attempting to butcher the working-class by pitting one countries workers against another, but this leads to it being unable to extricate itself from the bourgeois state. The lesson of the Italian national liberation government and PCI merger murdering and branding the true internationalist left communists as fascists should be a lesson to all. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk with backing from the soviet administration and its complete bureaucratic degeneration by 1921 liquidating the young and vibrant turkish communist movement in order to establish a system that possessed commonalities with Mussolini's fascist regime should not be forgotten.

Some Anarchists dismissing left communist criticisms of anti-fascism and national liberation as being marxist, authoritarian, naive or whatnbot do so at their own peril. All they will end up doing is digging their own grave. And one will struggle to feel sympathy for them.
 
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yield said:
Is Turkey’s War on Terror a consequence of the Iran Deal?
August 25, 2015

phildwyer
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Oh alright.

It's clear that Erdogan has imperialist ambitions in central Asia, where there's a band of Turkic-speaking people stretching from Azerbaijan into China. He'd like to re-integrate them into a new Ottoman-style state, and Iran is the major (in fact the only significant) obstacle to that long-term plan.

However the factor that generally gets discounted by Western analysts is Fetullah Gulan, a rival Islamist who heads a vast, wealthy organization both inside and outside the AKP and especially influential in the security services that Erdogan likes to call the "parallel state." Gulan was once an ally of Erdogan but has recently turned against him and is operating an independent foreign policy. I assume that the vacillations in Turkish-Persian relations have much to do with deals that Gulan is doing with the Iranian government behind Erdogan's back, possibly in preparation for some kind of power grab.
 
phildwyer said:
Oh alright.

It's clear that Erdogan has imperialist ambitions in central Asia, where there's a band of Turkic-speaking people stretching from Azerbaijan into China. He'd like to re-integrate them into a new Ottoman-style state, and Iran is the major (in fact the only significant) obstacle to that long-term plan.

However the factor that generally gets discounted by Western analysts is Fetullah Gulan, a rival Islamist who heads a vast, wealthy organization both inside and outside the AKP and especially influential in the security services that Erdogan likes to call the "parallel state." Gulan was once an ally of Erdogan but has recently turned against him and is operating an independent foreign policy. I assume that the vacillations in Turkish-Persian relations have much to do with deals that Gulan is doing with the Iranian government behind Erdogan's back, possibly in preparation for some kind of power grab.
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Thanks.

Fethullah Gülen never heard of him. About as elusive as Ergenekon.

Got anything to back that up?
 
Fethullah Gülen is the guy who originally was allied with Erdogan but they fell out bigstyle. He is probably the person who is directly or indirectly responsible for the leaks of meetings/phone conversations exposing wholesale corruption involving Erdogan. The exposés were published on Youtube and led to the Yotuube service being blocked in Turkey.
 
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teqniq said:
Fethullah Gülen is the guy who originally was allied with Erdogan but they fell out bigstyle. He is probably the person who is directly or indirectly responsible for the leaks of meetings exposing wholesale corruption involving Erdogan. The exposés were published on Youtube and let to the Yotuube service being blocked in Turkey.
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Oh right. Think I missed that. Thanks.
 
phildwyer said:
How's that?
Click to expand...

http://uk.businessinsider.com/a-dangerous-cocktail-is-brewing-in-turkey-2015-8?r=US&IR=T

Clashes between Turkish security forces and insurgents in the country's southeast have reportedly escalated to the level of "urban warfare," the Wall Street Journal reported recently, as PKK-linked youths dig "explosive-laden trenches" and carve out "autonomous zones" free from state control.

The unrest has been mounting steadily across the country since the Turkish military began striking PKK camps in northern Iraq on July 24, ending a two-year ceasefire with the terrorist organization.

The PKK has lost around 800 fighters in the bombings, according to Turkey's state-run news agency, Anadolu.

And more than 60 Turkish police officers and soldiers have been killed — and 200 wounded — in PKK attacks, Reuters reported.

Last Wednesday alone, gunmen attacked police outside a palace in Istanbul and eight soldiers were killed in a roadside bomb in the southeastern province of Siirt.

The wave of attacks, combined with reports that Kurds in the southeast are buying up weapons at an alarming rate, has some worried that the violence could ultimately spiral out of control.
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Read more: http://uk.businessinsider.com/a-dan...wing-in-turkey-2015-8?r=US&IR=T#ixzz3k5quxx5V

Also:

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0QW24R20150827

DIYARBAKIR, Turkey (Reuters) - Seven people, including at least four civilians, were killed on Thursday in clashes between Turkey's armed forces and militants in the mainly Kurdish southeast, security sources and the army said.

Smoke rose above the town of Cizre near the Syrian border after Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) rebels armed with rocket launchers attacked a military base in the afternoon, witnesses and security sources said.

One soldier was killed and four were wounded in a clash with PKK militants in Diyarbakir province, the Turkish military said in a statement.

Street fighting that has raged for days between soldiers and militia fighters continued overnight in the town of Yuksekova, about 300 km (190 miles) further east, near Turkey's border with Iraq and Iran, despite a curfew there, officials added.
Click to expand...
 
phildwyer said:
Oh alright.

It's clear that Erdogan has imperialist ambitions in central Asia, where there's a band of Turkic-speaking people stretching from Azerbaijan into China. He'd like to re-integrate them into a new Ottoman-style state, and Iran is the major (in fact the only significant) obstacle to that long-term plan.

However the factor that generally gets discounted by Western analysts is Fetullah Gulan, a rival Islamist who heads a vast, wealthy organization both inside and outside the AKP and especially influential in the security services that Erdogan likes to call the "parallel state." Gulan was once an ally of Erdogan but has recently turned against him and is operating an independent foreign policy. I assume that the vacillations in Turkish-Persian relations have much to do with deals that Gulan is doing with the Iranian government behind Erdogan's back, possibly in preparation for some kind of power grab.
Click to expand...
the last time someone tried to do this, didn't it end in tears?

e2a: yes, it did.

lest we forget: enver pasha

Ismail_Enver.jpg
 
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