LDC
On est tous des pangolins
FFS, no, and you know that's not what I meant. It's identity politics that (mostly) focuses on personal offense and safe spaces and lets structural power off the hook.
Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?
- Thread starter The Flying Pig
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FFS, no, and you know that's not what I meant. It's identity politics that (mostly) focuses on personal offense and safe spaces and lets structural power off the hook.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
I've never bought into that dichotomy tbh. In my experience it's the same people who are organising against the abuses of structural power who are talking about and taking action on issues of identity. Some people need safe spaces and a background level of understanding in order to be able to engage productively with wider issues. And unequal treatment based on people's differing identities is a fundamental part of the way structural power works, we can't usefully oppose it without opposing the ways in which we all internalise that and reproduce it on an interpersonal level.
Understanding and respect really don't need to take up much of anyone's time. At least 50% of time spent on 'identity politics' is time spent arguing with those who don't think we should be wasting time arguing about identity and its role in oppression.
I didn’t realise you were that far down the rabbit hole. Be sure to send postcards.
Treacle Toes
Time
Can you expand on why you think that is some kind of slam-dunk comment that wins the thread please because from where i'm sitting it might as well read WAKE UP SHEEPLE!
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Are you at any point going to post anything besides one-line put downs?
And mixed metaphor putdowns at that. When was the last time you saw a postbox at the bottom of a rabbit hole?
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Perhaps because transwomen currently outnumber transmen by anywhere betwen five and ten to one depending on who's estimate you use, although that is starting to change.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
I don't
I was saying read the whole Twitter thread that follows that tweet.
Treacle Toes
Time
I don't
Oh ...that wasn't clear from you post at all. Fair enough.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
It's a standard Twitter shorthand. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
e2a: Nah forget it.
It was actually two lines.
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
Only without my specs.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Why, conversely, do certain people characterise the 'transgender movement' as being an attack on female identity specifically?
Are trans men attacking male idenity? Should I be concerned about this?
andysays
Love and solidarity
I don't personally feel transmen are a threat to my identity, but I'd be a little wary about suggesting, as you seem to be doing, that others, particularly women, shouldn't simply on that basis.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Would genuinely like to know what the radical feminist position on this is tbh.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Talk of transgender people, whether trans men or trans women, having 'privilege' just seems laughable to me.
Also I may have this wrong, but the woman who spouted hateful bile on the internet and was excluded from the Labour do as a result was excluded at the request and agreement of the women there, only one of whom was trans, no? Bit insulting to those women to imply that they are being dictated to by the one trans woman in their midst.
Also I may have this wrong, but the woman who spouted hateful bile on the internet and was excluded from the Labour do as a result was excluded at the request and agreement of the women there, only one of whom was trans, no? Bit insulting to those women to imply that they are being dictated to by the one trans woman in their midst.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
What a depressing thread. 
Not, I might (hastily) add, depressing in terms of the contributions made - I've learnt a lot from dipping into it. But depressing in the politics/reality outside of urban that is being discussed. I'm not doing a 'this is the logical ends of identity politics' type point. The politics of identity is massively important (as opposed to 'Identity Politics'), just as so many points made by both trans and feminist activists are. It's just really depressing as a way of carrying on, as a way of doing life. It doesn't look outwards, it doesn't engage or even, ahem, 'intersect' with class struggles and inequalities. It doesn't form a basis for challenging anything. Politics as offence and little more.
Not, I might (hastily) add, depressing in terms of the contributions made - I've learnt a lot from dipping into it. But depressing in the politics/reality outside of urban that is being discussed. I'm not doing a 'this is the logical ends of identity politics' type point. The politics of identity is massively important (as opposed to 'Identity Politics'), just as so many points made by both trans and feminist activists are. It's just really depressing as a way of carrying on, as a way of doing life. It doesn't look outwards, it doesn't engage or even, ahem, 'intersect' with class struggles and inequalities. It doesn't form a basis for challenging anything. Politics as offence and little more.
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SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Yes but what do you think Magnus?
You missed all my other posts on the topic? I think we’re going round in circles.
I find it hard to believe the character of any other political struggle would be summed up by a post on facebook from a random child.
Here’s a more high brow source citing similar.
Don't call pregnant women 'expectant mothers' as it might offend transgender people, BMA says
We've been through this on here, it was internal guidance for BMA staff only on suggested forms of sensitive language. And nothing to do with transwomen, and neither is the quote from the 16 year old you posted - this is about the apparantly invisible transmen.
Are transmen attacking female identity specifically?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
"The document, which was published last year, also underlines guidance on language that has long been considered offensive, suggesting staff do not refer to people as being "spastic" or "mongol" but that they should be called a "person with cerebral palsy" or "person with Down's syndrome."
Bit concerning (to say the least) that the professional body for doctors had to issue that advice last year.
The article has an A-Z list of outraged arsehole quotes.
Bit concerning (to say the least) that the professional body for doctors had to issue that advice last year.
The article has an A-Z list of outraged arsehole quotes.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
About what? I almost forget which thread I’m on nowadays as the same subject is being discussed across many; I’ve given my thoughts on all of them.
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
I don't think trans men or trans women have gender privilege. But certainly there are trans men who have described being taken more seriously at work etc, which would suggest some male privilege being accessed.
Perhaps trans men aren't as active/vocal in transgender politics because they experience more acceptance than trans women.
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
Interestingly, that's about asserting trans men's identity (as many still menstruate, and so feel excluded by statements like "only women have periods".
Are you saying that trans men are exhibiting male privilege, contrary to weepiper 's post?
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