I dunno what bit yer referring to?
Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?
- Thread starter The Flying Pig
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I dunno what bit yer referring to?
trashpony
Hag
No, it doesn't. But it's been condoned by quite a few people on this thread who as good as said she was asking for it
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
Just to say, if anyone does want to chat to me and I have you on ignore you might have to post on the LGBT sofa thread to get my attention. I'm taking all posters off ignore in there because I assume everyone will be showing respect
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
Yeah that's such an accurate portrayal of my involvement.I said I was worried about the lifelong impact of drugs on children. Stella ranted on the basis of things I hadn't said and hasn't apologised. iona made a cracking post explaining gender dysphoria to those of us who don't experience it. There was a fair bit of shouting. Stella told us she hated everyone but kept coming back again to say 'and another thing!'
So normal urban
Well no one has apologised to me and I think I've had the rough end of the stick here.
Taking (nearly) everyone off ignore now.
Haven't said I hated anyone.
Have to look after myself
I apologise for yesterday I think I had a kind of mini breakdown. Not surprsiing really.
Athos
Well-Known Member
From about 1:08:35.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Because you're tolerant, and they're intolerant. They may try to justify their position via various routes, but at the end of the day, they're intolerant, and none of their justifications hold enough water for their position to have become even a minor philosophical tendency.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
i do think that me arguing about this stuff is pointless as (mostly) everyone still sees me through the lens of having once been identfied as male and that - whether you like it or not and whether you are conscious of it or not* - is the sad reality which I've had to get used to since transitioning. Fpr example - the constant attacks on me for not answering some points from some women - and even though I've pretty much mostly engaged with posters i believe to be women in this debate and that most of the people I had an issue with were posters i believe to be male i still get accused of not enaging with women. This to me says I am not accepted as a woman - as I'm always having to justify why i disagree with a woman on this subject which i have been living and breathing for about 5 years now.
What iona said in that post that some of you have rightly praised. There's nothing in there i haven't already said.
I just don't think that me talking about trans is ever going to be accepted on Urban 75 and other than if people wish to chat one to one I'm disengaging.
You'll all be a lot happier hearing it from a person who was assigned female at birth I'm sure.
*interesting study shows that people show an unconscious bias to spotting male features in people - that even observing a cis woman who is thought by the observer to be trans, 'male' features will be identified. It's why cis women sometimes experience transphobic attacks.
I've spent 5 years trying to work the internalised transphobia out of myself. I'm damned sure that most (all?) cis people who haven't had the experience of discovering they were trans, and having to come to terms with that, are going to be very transphobic in their view of the world, whether they intend to or not. Me calling a viewpoint transphobic though was often met with denials, open hostility towards me and demands for an apology.
If i can admit my intenralised transphobia then I'm sure you all can.
This is a friendly post and my last on this subject.
What iona said in that post that some of you have rightly praised. There's nothing in there i haven't already said.
I just don't think that me talking about trans is ever going to be accepted on Urban 75 and other than if people wish to chat one to one I'm disengaging.
You'll all be a lot happier hearing it from a person who was assigned female at birth I'm sure.
*interesting study shows that people show an unconscious bias to spotting male features in people - that even observing a cis woman who is thought by the observer to be trans, 'male' features will be identified. It's why cis women sometimes experience transphobic attacks.
I've spent 5 years trying to work the internalised transphobia out of myself. I'm damned sure that most (all?) cis people who haven't had the experience of discovering they were trans, and having to come to terms with that, are going to be very transphobic in their view of the world, whether they intend to or not. Me calling a viewpoint transphobic though was often met with denials, open hostility towards me and demands for an apology.
If i can admit my intenralised transphobia then I'm sure you all can.
This is a friendly post and my last on this subject.
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Athos
Well-Known Member
Where are these "constant attacks on [you] for not answering some points from women"? Yes, people ask you to justify why you disagree with women. That's not because you're not accepted as a woman, but becasue we're all expected to justify what we say. None of us can reasonably expect for our opinions to be immune from scrutiny becasue of our identity.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
Athos. I'm done here. Believe me. I mean it.
Thimble Queen
Called away to another place
Stella, I think you should put this thread on ignore x
Athos
Well-Known Member
The requests for an apology on this thread haven't been that, though. They've been examples of where you've accused people of saying something they didn't. I'm sure you're right that all of us could benefit from some self-reflection about unconscious transphobia, but you also need to think about your conduct.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
Damn it you've drawn me in. Yes justify things i say but no - not justifying things i didn't say.
Taking TQ's advice now and putting this on ignore
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
bye
Athos
Well-Known Member
Ok, fine. I wrote my last post before i'd seen this. Of course, you're under no obligation to post on this thread, or any oter on this subject. But, from my perspective, I think you have an important perspective to offer if you were able to engage a bit differently. Maybe when you've had a breather, you'll change your mind.
None of that addresses your misrepresentation of what Trashpony said though, and the way you are skating over it, is what makes it hard to discuss things with you. Does it not occur to you that other posters who have identified as trans, and who have talked in this thread about their experiences, have been involved in discussions which have been calm and thoughtful?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
You're better off avoiding the thread then. The irony of your post here is clearly lost on you.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
A perhaps pointless aside from me:
I happen to agree with the content of that letter, but marshalling the great and good to write to the guardian ain't a good look. Does nothing to dispel the notion of this as the liberal political class talking to itself.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Yeah, god forbid she has to actually justify and argue for some of the things she's said.
Thimble Queen
Called away to another place
Or maybe it's better for Stella's involvement in this to end. She's obviously been distressed by the interactions here. Whatever the rights and wrongs are sometimes it's best to just leave things.
An apology isn't difficult.
I went back and looked again, tbh it's something I have seen talked about, it kinda used to be framed in a 'this is how you do it' way due to invisibility/gatekeeping, but informed consent is more of a thing now, so the questions I see are mainly 'am i trans' and then you get a bunch of people with no qualifications in anything but their own selves telling someone they sound like they are trans < some people discuss the negative implications of this and they are the ones who will advise speaking to a therapist or going to a support group
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
That's interesting, but begs a few questions. I can see that aspects of what the bloke is researching might concern trans people and the trans community - and I don't know what his particular line is. But the interesting bit to me is whether the university itself has simply absorbed the notion that the research might be 'politically incorrect' (if that's was the actual wording used). Whether their decision is part of the internal logic of public sector 'diversity management' or whether it reflects any input at all from trans people with concerns.
Pedant point: it probably doesn't reflect any active concerns from trans people, ethics committees are internal university processes. But still, it's interesting - if the story is as reported - how they reached that decision.
All they have is what the guy who's had his research bid turned down says. Smells a bit fishy to me.
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