Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[bimble]

I have asked you a question. But answer comes there none.

And so I searched and found your v important question. You asked What is the point of me saying that there is a cult-like nature to this movement. After someone else said it was a cult. That is your question? Bollocks I'm going to the shops.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Get me a cornetto from the cope cheers

 

[Pickman's model]

And so I searched and found your v important question. You asked What is the point of me saying that there is a cult-like nature to this movement. After someone else said it was a cult. That is your question? Bollocks I'm going to the shops.

I asked what was the point of your "just saying". It seems that, like so many of your 'contributions' it was pointless.

 

[bimble]

So you agree, most are not changing their bodies after being given time?

I would have liked to see you chatting to this bairn.

It was not fun those chats, its what made me interested in this rabbbithole. Listening to her/ him/ them made me want to cry but I waited till they weren't looking obvs. At school (america) they're still going by their boy name, because its really embarassing and uncool to be a desister.
It was all about not liking “girly things”.

 

[comrade spurski]

Get me a cornetto from the cope cheers

Just one cornetto?

 

[co-op]

What is "bullying misgendering" ?
Excuse my ignorance but I have never heard the term before and am interested.
Cheers

There was meant to be a comma between the two although misgendering could easily be an example of bullying in its own right. My point was that transphobia (imo) shouldn't mean 'disagreeing with a particularly vociferous strand of trans theorists' - it should mean actively trying to mess up transpeople's lives.

Any thread on this topic seems to head inevitably to a very vocal group chanting "transphobe" at anyone who isn't 100% signed up to - eg self ID as the sole criterion of what it is to be a 'woman' etc. It's an abuse of the word.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

At the moment its extremely hard for me to disassociate in my mind the sort of groups who might try to encourage, energise and use a backlash, from some of the groups, people and ideological positions you are taking/are aligned with.

I could be wrong, I might have misunderstood the nature of the suggested backlash, or of your relationship with certain groups and positions.

I think you do misunderstand me. The point I was making is that I think the backlash will come from ordinary people. I specifically mentioned concerns over the way children are being transed.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

People have been doing all sorts of things for decades it doesn't make them right. Seriously your debating skills are going down the pan.

I'm not sure what you think you know about me. I'm not an 'ally'.

Like I said, I've been doing this for decades, so no I'm not changing my language for you or anyone else.

 

[co-op]

Interesting essay on the idea of binary here

The idea that gender is a spectrum is a new gender prison | Aeon Essays

 

[Pickman's model]

Like I said, I've been doing this for decades, so no I'm not changing my language for you or anyone else.

perhaps after several decades you should reconsider your language to make sure it still cuts the mustard

 

[bimble]

perhaps after several decades you should reconsider your language to make sure it still cuts the mustard

Telling other people what words they’re allowed to use to describe their own selves. This totally is the way forward.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

The woman who started the sue Labour fundraiser is now saying that she has also been suspended from Labour. It occurs to me that announcing publicly that you are going to sue a party probably isn’t a particularly good way to get on the good side of its apparatchiks.

 

[Pickman's model]

Telling other people what words they’re allowed to use to describe their own selves. This totally is the way forward.

i haven't made any suggestions to the liar yardley for what language they should use, but if they've been using the same language for a long time maybe they should examine it themselves to ensure it still conveys the meaning they desire and does not carry connotations they would be unhappy with. you always do this, bimble, make out something's been said which hasn't. it doesn't make you look big or clever, quite the reverse from my pov.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Rod Liddle another newfound friend and ally of the “gender critical”. Very principled of the “feminists” in his piece to give him quotes attacking Momentum and comparing trans people to the Pedophile Information Exchange.

Women come last in Labour’s deranged victim hierarchy | The Spectator

 

[comrade spurski]

There was meant to be a comma between the two although misgendering could easily be an example of bullying in its own right. My point was that transphobia (imo) shouldn't mean 'disagreeing with a particularly vociferous strand of trans theorists' - it should mean actively trying to mess up transpeople's lives.

Any thread on this topic seems to head inevitably to a very vocal group chanting "transphobe" at anyone who isn't 100% signed up to - eg self ID as the sole criterion of what it is to be a 'woman' etc. It's an abuse of the word.

Thanks.
Like I said...it was a genuine question.

I was confused because I thought it meant that deliberately calling someone she when they have asked to be called he (and visaversa) regardless of how that made the person feel was a form of bullying.

Then I noticed Miranda Yardley had liked your post and from my understanding Miranda refuses to call trans people by their chosen pronoun. Miranda used the comparison of...if your friend said they were a zebra would you accept them as a zebra? (I may have got the animal wrong)

So I was then confused by what it meant.

None of this is to dig at Miranda.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

Then I noticed Miranda Yardley had liked your post and from my understanding Miranda refuses to call trans people by their chosen pronoun. Miranda used the comparison of...if your friend said they were a zebra would you accept them as a zebra? (I may have got the animal wrong)

I think it was a tiger

 

[bimble]

The woman who started the sue Labour fundraiser is now saying that she has also been suspended from Labour. It occurs to me that announcing publicly that you are going to sue a party probably isn’t a particularly good way to get on the good side of its apparatchiks.

Yay. Dissenters up against the wall. She was right, the fundraiser, was legally correct, that’s why no announcement on it from Labour.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

YAy. Dissenters up against the wall. She was right, the fundraiser, was legally correct, that’s why no announcement on it from Labour.

She was suspended, I believe, for saying words to the effect of 'women don't have dicks'. If the Labour Party suspended anyone who challenged Party positions that had not been approved according to rules, that would be pretty grim.

 

[Pickman's model]

YAy. Dissenters up against the wall. She was right, the fundraiser, was legally correct, that’s why no announcement on it from Labour.

yeh cos the labour party has never been nasty to dissenters before. it's not like they expelled militant or got rid of councillors who refused to set a poll tax or anything. more than a hundred years of being nasty to dissenters but for you it's always something new.

 

[bimble]

If the Labour Party suspended anyone who challenged Party positions that had not been approved according to rules, that would be pretty grim.

So, it’s pretty grim.

 

[elbows]

She was right, the fundraiser, was legally correct, that’s why no announcement on it from Labour.

A tad premature to claim that. We may assume that there were legal issues that prevented the announcement, but legal processes often involve debate themselves and thats a process that I would assume will take a while before we see exactly what possibilities are deemed legally acceptable.

 

[comrade spurski]

Telling other people what words they’re allowed to use to describe their own selves. This totally is the way forward.

But Miranda believes that they have "right" to use the word he to refer to someone who wishes to be known as she (and visaversa).
Surely that it unnecessary, rude, arrogant and hurtful.
Miranda is effectively doing what you are (rightly in my view) criticising.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Rod Liddle another newfound friend and ally of the “gender critical”. Very principled of the “feminists” in his piece to give him quotes attacking Momentum and comparing trans people to the Pedophile Information Exchange.

Women come last in Labour’s deranged victim hierarchy | The Spectator

And of course transphobes of both majority (conservative) and minority (TERF) sorts are sharing it around social media. Strange the friendships shared bigotry can encourage.

 

[bimble]

A tad premature to claim that. We may assume that there were legal issues that prevented the announcement, but legal processes often involve debate themselves and thats a process that I would assume will take a while before we see exactly what possibilities are deemed legally acceptable.

The only reason the issue of what’s legally acceptable got raised is this fundraiser, far as I know.

 

[bimble]

yeh cos the labour party has never been nasty to dissenters before. it's not like they expelled militant or got rid of councillors who refused to set a poll tax or anything. more than a hundred years of being nasty to dissenters but for you it's always something new.

Will you ever stop banging on about the poll tax old man?

 

[Miranda Yardley]

But Miranda believes that they have "right" to use the word he to refer to someone who wishes to be known as she (and visaversa).
Surely that it unnecessary, rude, arrogant and hurtful.
Miranda is effectively doing what you are (rightly in my view) criticising.

Everyone has the right to describe males using masculine pronouns. Be thankful our society hasn't mandated that, yet.

And no, it's not rude or arrogant or hurtful. What is rude is men calling women 'TERF' because they disagree with women who know the penis is the male sex organ. What is arrogant is having a man occupy a women's political position because he thinks he knows what women's needs are. And What is hurtful, is men telling women what it is to be a woman, and then moving the goalposts expecting them to accommodate males into their spaces and culture.

 

[pengaleng]

oh just fuck off, you are disgusting.

 

[Pickman's model]

Will you ever stop banging on about the poll tax old man?

I will do when you get some decent politics. So it may be some time yet, bimble.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I see intersexuals have unicorn status again in this latest display of good essentialism.

 

[pengaleng]

(((mythical beings)))