Transgender hate crimes recorded by police go up 81%

[elbows]

Intersex community members have been failed in the same way, excluded and marginalised by those whose ideology is incompatible with their biological realities.

Despite often ranting about these issues, it still shames me that I remained here, in a place that so blatantly turned a blind eye.

 

[Pickman's model]

Intersex community members have been failed in the same way, excluded and marginalised by those whose ideology is incompatible with their biological realities.

Despite often ranting about these issues, it still shames me that I remained here, in a place that so blatantly turned a blind eye.

tbh the trans bigots thread is such a hateful place that many people, by no means lily-livered noobs, have either not posted in that thread or have been driven from that thread if not the boards by a clique or cabal of - let's say - gc posters. it's the vilest thread on the boards.

 

[Steel Icarus]

I think it's far more complex than that, and to call Edie a bigot is out of order. She's been open with her own ideas and fears as well as open to discussion and she obviously gives this stuff a great deal of thought. It doesn't help matters when discussions begin with arguments or accusations as we've seen from one very troubled Urbanite.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Others, not so much.

 

[elbows]

I think it's far more complex than that, and to call Edie a bigot is out of order. She's been open with her own ideas and fears as well as open to discussion and she obviously gives this stuff a great deal of thought. It doesn't help matters when discussions begin with arguments or accusations as we've seen from one very troubled Urbanite.

She has been the sort of unashamed bigot, who went shopping for an ideology to match her bigotry later, that I have no qualms calling out.

At various times I ended up having to explain the apparently foreign concepts of solidarity and empathy to her, and she shows very little care in her posts no matter the context. Over the course of a year or so she has gone from being gleeful about her own ignorance, to dismissive, to a GC ideology promoter.

I liked Edie very much years ago. Thats no reason to keep quiet now, and certainly not on this thread where she was only to happy to fill the role of transphobe.

 

[elbows]

I dont mind if you shoot the messenger, I am more than ready for it, but it wont solve anything. Try directing some of that energy to making an actual difference.

 

[Edie]

Fuck off you prick. Don’t pretend to know what I think. And get yourself down off that fucking pedestal before you come a cropper.

 

[elbows]

I'm going by your own descriptions of what you think, transphobe.

Dont worry about me coming a cropper, worry about all the trans people who might come a cropper as a result of your shit.

 

[elbows]

And yes, I do get too upset when I see women becoming uncomfortable in feminism threads, and trans and intersex people openly saying goodbye to these forums.

And this is one of those weeks

 

[xenon]

She has been the sort of unashamed bigot, who went shopping for an ideology to match her bigotry later, that I have no qualms calling out.

At various times I ended up having to explain the apparently foreign concepts of solidarity and empathy to her, and she shows very little care in her posts no matter the context. Over the course of a year or so she has gone from being gleeful about her own ignorance, to dismissive, to a GC ideology promoter.

I liked Edie very much years ago. Thats no reason to keep quiet now, and certainly not on this thread where she was only to happy to fill the role of transphobe.

Edie speaks for herself but ^this isn't how I've read her posts on that thread and is out of order IMO. Especially given the basis of this thread.

FWIW I've stayed out of that thread lately cos I already stated my irrelevant cis man PoV months ago. A new poster got dragged into it and around it all goes again... And no, I don't have beef with most of where you're coming from either but attributing opinions perjorative stances to posters they haven't subscribed to is just throwing fuel on the fire.

 

[elbows]

Yes what will really fix the problem is to focus on an inappropriate messenger who dares to actually point out a transphobic source on this forum.

What would be much better would be to declare all the bigots to be entirely innocent, or unfairly characterised, and then do some meaningless handwringing about transphobia in general, while dealing with none of the people and issues that have actually left u75 in this state. And its not like anyone else is likely to go, ooh, Edie wasnt the best target, I will name xxxx instead. Yeah, lets not get too close to the problem, that would be too personal and hateful, never mind the hate that drove people away over years.

It makes no difference to the problem whether you successfully condemn my posts or not. The indicators of the problem remain in place even if I never post again and never posted a million times on this topic at any stage in the past.

Its hard to stay here anyway, so I have nothing much to lose . Jut look at various indicators of diversity here, some of them are in an alarming state. The state of the LGTBQ+ sofa to give just one very simple example, its basically dead, on this of all months (pride)!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm going by your own descriptions of what you think, transphobe..

Come off it. It is very clear that Edie responded in that way on this thread as a direct response to the passive-aggressive shite posted earlier about 'resident transphobes'. She doesn't need me to defend her, but this is bang out of order.

 

[elbows]

The thing is I dont hate Edie or anything like that. I was being very honest last year when I told her she made me cry at some stage in some thread at that time. Its those sorts of emotions, despite the ranting. Mostly I cried because I took her at face value on the topic when she said she wanted to learn and had questions, but then so much else of what she subsequently said went in a transphobic direction that left little room for interpretation.

I picked her out in this thread because she was already in this thread, and I dont think this is the first thread where she has felt the need to mention in her first post that she guesses she is classed as a transphobe. I assume she says that because of things that I and some other people said to and about her in the past on this topic. So I thought it would be less surprising to her if I named her, than if I chose someone else. She is also the only person who I know who said 'fuck the trans issue' recently. I understand from what some people are saying that I have misjudged the context of that, and probably the context of some other thigns too. If so, I truly am sorry about that. But I would suggest that whatever the context, such flippant turns of phrase are not appropriate for a subject which has caused trans people to feel unsafe, unwelcome etc and leave in the past.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I'm going by your own descriptions of what you think, transphobe.

Dont worry about me coming a cropper, worry about all the trans people who might come a cropper as a result of your shit.

You are bang out of order. Edie has been very honest and clear about her feelings and working through of this stuff over a number of months. I can't remember her once being malicious or attacking.

She was obviously respondiog to SpookyFrank 's provocative post about 'resident trasphobes'. I bet she isn't the only one that was left feeling he was talking about them, myself included.

But hey I am sure trans people everywhere are glad they have you defending them against anyone and everyone.

 

[elbows]

To be clear:

I will accept all the condemnation of me that everyone has to offer, and I will feel the appropriate degree of shame, regret etc for my words.

But dont let this detract from the big issue.

If I have made a terrible attempt to actually talk about the detail of the transphobia on u75, then someone else please show the way, show us how to tackle it without the terrible wrongs and pain of my approach. Because it hasnt happened in the past, and we have lost people from this community, and people just carry on and then the next cycle comes and more damage is done and nothing changes in a good way.

 

[elbows]

In other words, be careful that in successfully dealing with me and stopping my unwarranted shit, you dont also demonstrate all the reasons why u75 has not managed to tackle this issue properly in the past.

 

[Treacle Toes]

She has been the sort of unashamed bigot, who went shopping for an ideology to match her bigotry later, that I have no qualms calling out.

At various times I ended up having to explain the apparently foreign concepts of solidarity and empathy to her, and she shows very little care in her posts no matter the context. Over the course of a year or so she has gone from being gleeful about her own ignorance, to dismissive, to a GC ideology promoter.

I liked Edie very much years ago. Thats no reason to keep quiet now, and certainly not on this thread where she was only to happy to fill the role of transphobe.

Wow. God has spoken. Tell us god, what does perfect feel like? Tell us what it feels like to be you and believe you have the fucking right to post such personally attacking shit like this without a single reference or evidence?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You haven't talked about the detail of the transphobia on u75. You've attacked edie without stating a single thing that she's said that you consider to be transphobic. Your posts are content-free waffle for the most part.

You're right that this has been a horribly divisive issue on here. But you're not helping any.

fwiw, I think this is utter, utter bollocks.

Over the course of a year or so she has gone from being gleeful about her own ignorance, to dismissive, to a GC ideology promoter

 

[Treacle Toes]

In other words, be careful that in successfully dealing with me and stopping my unwarranted shit, you dont also demonstrate all the reasons why u75 has not managed to tackle this issue properly in the past.

You what?

Could you actually backpeddle any faster whilst simitaneously throwing ninja stars at our heads?

 

[killer b]

I wonder if any forum for discussion has managed to tackle this issue properly without one or the other side feeling shut down, shut out or betrayed?

 

[elbows]

And I am truly sorry. I love everyone. I get very depressed by humans focus on the differences, when the similarities are so rich and abundant, and the variations to be celebrated in all their forms.

 

[belboid]

Oh look. Another thread about the abuse trans people face gets turned into how mean people are to transphobes/the gender hypocritical

 

[Steel Icarus]

There's deffo a climate of "fuck.what unites us, let's rip people to shreds over what divides us" lately. Adding to it especially with a personal attack is attempting to put out a fire with lighter fluid.

 

[elbows]

I wonder if any forum for discussion has managed to tackle this issue properly without one or the other side feeling shut down, shut out or betrayed?

Yes its not easy, I dont claim that it is or should be.

In this particular case both sides have vocalised a feeling of being shut-down, silenced etc. It does seem like one side in particular have been the ones to actually leave this community though, although it is entirely possible that I am mistaken about that.

 

[StoneRoad]

I wonder if any forum for discussion has managed to tackle this issue properly without one or the other side feeling shut down, shut out or betrayed?

That applies to all subjects, not just the trans situation, imho

 

[Teaboy]

If I have made a terrible attempt to actually talk about the detail of the transphobia on u75, then someone else please show the way, show us how to tackle it without the terrible wrongs and pain of my approach. Because it hasnt happened in the past, and we have lost people from this community, and people just carry on and then the next cycle comes and more damage is done and nothing changes in a good way.

What has urban done to deserve such benevolence? A true martyr walks amongst us.

FWIW's your Holiness. I try and avoid getting involved in these threads but I did notice on the other thread a very barbed comment at you from someone who is somewhat more than an interested observer regarding this subject. The fact that you ignored it speaks volumes.

Time to invest in a mirror.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes its not easy, I dont claim that it is or should be.

In this particular case both sides have vocalised a feeling of being shut-down, silenced etc. It does seem like one side in particular have been the ones to actually leave this community though, although it is entirely possible that I am mistaken about that.

You are mistaken about that. People from both 'sides' have left.

 

[sim667]

I wonder if any forum for discussion has managed to tackle this issue properly without one or the other side feeling shut down, shut out or betrayed?

Mumsnet

 

[smokedout]

You are mistaken about that. People from both 'sides' have left.

There's a difference between feeling excluded from a community because you're political views have diverged so far from that community it is no longer comfortable to stay and feeling excluded from a community because of something you are that you had no choice over.

 

[elbows]

What has urban done to deserve such benevolence? A true martyr walks amongst us.

FWIW's your Holiness. I try and avoid getting involved in these threads but I did notice on the other thread a very barbed comment at you from someone who is somewhat more than an interested observer regarding this subject. The fact that you ignored it speaks volumes.

Time to invest in a mirror.

There is nothing holier than thou about actually wanting to deal with transphobia, especially on a thread about statistics of transphobic attacks. On a forum that has failed to deal with it so far.

I make barbed comments, I take barbed comments, sometimes I respond to them and sometimes I do not. It depends on many things, including the moment and how much I am already talking too much and who made the comment and the nature of its barbs. In this case I do not know precisely which one you mean, but I certainly know I make mistakes and a proportion of my posts are spent going on about my own mistakes. There have certainly been several occasions in the other thread recently that were very difficult for all concerned, and also some surreal ones due to the posting style of someone who I think is currently banned for an unrelated matter.

I dont think people really want me to spend even more time staring into the mirror. I already spend too much time going on about myself.