Toriers & Lib Dems, deal by Monday morning?
- Thread starter Fedayn
- Start date
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Quote from that:
past caring
The Cathars were right
LibDems are fucked now, either way. If they put Cameron in, he'll call a new g/election as soon as the polls predict a workable Tory majority. That could be in as little as six months. What does Clegg realistically think he could squeeze out of Cameron before then? A "promise" of a referendum on PR in 2011 or 2012 - that'll go out of the window if Cameron gets a majority at any new general election. And Clegg has to bank on any convinced anti-Tory element that there may be in the LibDem vote deserting him at that next GE.
Most of this, from a LibDem perspective, has been caused because silly cunt Clegg couldn't keep his cards close to his chest. And this man is a leader?
Most of this, from a LibDem perspective, has been caused because silly cunt Clegg couldn't keep his cards close to his chest. And this man is a leader?
Not sure why people keep on thinking a Con-Lib pact will hurt the Lib-Dems.
Sure you are going to get a lot of pissed of Labour supporters who voted 'tactically' but so what ? They were only along for the ride and would have switched back to Labour anyway along with a sense that they are so hysterical about the Tories that if push comes to shove they will trot along and do what ever Labour tells them to do in the future.
As I see it the Labour party have been far more treacherous towards the Lib-Dems in the past than the Tories (anybody remember the 1997 manifesto pledge for a referedum on PR) and that tribal Lib-Dem supporters really have no where else to go.
Sure you are going to get a lot of pissed of Labour supporters who voted 'tactically' but so what ? They were only along for the ride and would have switched back to Labour anyway along with a sense that they are so hysterical about the Tories that if push comes to shove they will trot along and do what ever Labour tells them to do in the future.
As I see it the Labour party have been far more treacherous towards the Lib-Dems in the past than the Tories (anybody remember the 1997 manifesto pledge for a referedum on PR) and that tribal Lib-Dem supporters really have no where else to go.
marty21
One on one? You're crazy.
if the deal goes go ahead, and it is still a big IF, once Cameron and his chums are ministers, they might be reluctant to go for another election that quickly as they might lose all that nice minister gig stuff, the cars, etc
Clegg needs something out of it, the last liberal coaltion in the 70s, pretty much fucked them for 30 years
Clegg needs something out of it, the last liberal coaltion in the 70s, pretty much fucked them for 30 years
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
I doubt it's the Lab supporters that voted tactically that will be the most bothered tbh, rather it will be the Lib Dem supporters that always had the belief they had become a proper alternative to the other two that have dominated politics. And if it means their own party selling out on some of their values to prop up a Tory government, then I still can't see that being a good thing for the future of the Lib Dems as a whole.
Well the 'tactical' voters I know are going nuts at the thought that their votes might have put a Tory Government in place (much to my own amusement).
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Probably because they think that anyone who trusts Shiny Dave is likely to get screwed.
I can sympathise with that point of view.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
Because it is judged that a majority of their voters are anti Tory. (Polly Tonybee said 2/3 on TV yesterday morning. She said it was from research, but I don't know where or what).
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
So that's at the very least the tactical voters plus the people motivated by the beliefs that steph outlined - maybe more. Whose left? Tory tacticals, those genuinely committed to the lib-dem form of neo-liberalism, and the apolitical PR or death types. That's got to be 50% at the very most.
100% masahiko
i is a professor and is magical like totoro
That's me!
At least it's shown how credible Clegg is now.
If he does abandon the whole PR thing, it's only going to make him more lame. I can't see how all this will roll out with his party and Tories.
Where's Brown today? No-one wants to play with him still? He's reminds me of that briefcase kid at school...
As opposed to Labour ? Who quite happily screwed the Lib-Dems in 1997 ?
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
I don't know how it'll affect things in England but certainly most of the Scottish Lib-Dem voters I know (and I know quite a few) are very pissed off at the idea. I can see the Scottish Lib-Dem vote falling apart because a lot of them will go either Labour or SNP at the Scottish Parliamentary elections (next year?).
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
marty21
One on one? You're crazy.
he has to stay as PM, probably would prefer to go away and lick his wounds but he's stuck until the whole thing is sorted
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
Well, it could fuck them for the Scottish Elections up here next year. Especially after the Scottish Lib Dems attacked the claim of 'Vote Clegg Get Cameron' which may well be borne out to be true. The Tories got 17% of the votes in Scotland and now the Lib Dems will be seen, rightly too, as keeping an unwanted-in Scotland-Tory minority government in power. They can no longer calim to be 'opposition' when they're lined up with the Tories. Even the former Scottish Lib Dem leader, in an interview on Sunday, made it clear that the majority of Lib Dems will be opposed to this. That will be marlkedly so up here where there is a collective memory and hatred of Thatcher still very much evident.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
Did they? How?
marty21
One on one? You're crazy.
agree with this, it'll fuck them good and proper up there, would Labour get back, if there is a collapse of the LibDem vote, or would the Nationalists benefit?
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
He's the PM until somebody else is. And atm, nobody else has asked the Queen to wave her magic wand.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
A liberal deal, without PR, would see them wiped out in the Northern cities that they've made such a big play about winning. Liverpools already gone, Sheffield will follow, along with Newcastle, Leeds, anywhere you care to mention. Probably ttrue where they've made some gains in London too. People fucked off with Labour, but who could never vote for tories, would desert them. And Cameron would never ever give in on PR, so there'd just be a 'Liberal' party boting for massive cuts - yeeha!
Labour would undoubtedly give PR (they've said as much), so, while a lash up with them would drive some tories away, they would have extracted their major concession, and the government would collapse after a year anyway, when Clegg could say 'well, you dont have your excuse about tax cuts beig a terrible thing when we're only just coming out of recession' any more.
Labour would undoubtedly give PR (they've said as much), so, while a lash up with them would drive some tories away, they would have extracted their major concession, and the government would collapse after a year anyway, when Clegg could say 'well, you dont have your excuse about tax cuts beig a terrible thing when we're only just coming out of recession' any more.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
He keeps saying this -they didn't - they screwed the electorate. The 97 manifesto contained a commitment to a commission to investigate reform of the electoral system followed by a referendum on their recommendations. The report was set up, then Blair just ignored its findings. The 2001 manifesto contained, instead of a commitment to a referendum, another look at how the electoral reforms they'd set up in the first term were working. None of this had anything to do with promising the lib-dems anything whatsoever.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
be interesting to see - although one of my neighbouring seats was previously regarded as a safe Lib-Dem seat with a big majority, there was a big swing to Labour there at this election - 11.4%, cutting the majority from 12,000 to 4,000ish. So I imagine that one'll be a Labour target
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
David MacLetchie (former Tory leader in Holyrood) admitted yesterday that the Tories were "toxic" in Scotland. He thought a period of Tory government might change that.
There is no viable alternative to a Con-Lib deal. Its as simple as that. This so called 'rainbow' coalition is just going to be unworkable given its reliance on Scottish and Welsh nationalist votes which will have to be bought, at the expense of England.
Just cannot happen as long as I have a hole in my arse. It would be catastrophic for the UK and whilst I would shed no tears at a break up of the UK it would be the finish for both the lib dems and Labour.
Just cannot happen as long as I have a hole in my arse. It would be catastrophic for the UK and whilst I would shed no tears at a break up of the UK it would be the finish for both the lib dems and Labour.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
course it could dumbo, it doesn't even need them in a coalition
elbows
Well-Known Member
Care to point to something specific on that site that demonstrates the yellow rage?
In pratical terms it does.
A governing party for all sorts of reasons cannot maintain a full turn out of MP's at Westminster. The Tories would refuse to enter any deal to twin with MP's from other parties and be constantly looking to sabotage all legislation along with having a very good case for proclaiming the illegitmacy of any English only legislation that gets through using Scottish and Welsh MP's votes.
It just aint pratical in any way, shape or form.
Similar threads
