Too late for a PGCE application?

[maomao]

Have been shortlisted and invited for an interview for one of the TA jobs Thursday morning.

It's a really interesting job (eal) but the pay is awful (14k, which for 27 hours term time only isn't that bad but I would only take the job if I couldn't make more elsewhere, I have hungry kids). Should I do it just to practise interviews? I sold myself pretty strongly on the job application. I've never asked for a job interview to be rescheduled in my life, it's terribly bad form isn't it?

Meanwhile struggling a bit with lesson plan. I could just nick and adjust a lesson from TES site about history of English as would be playing to my skills/Linguistics degree. But I was looking at the reading list for Oak Academy's year 7 English lessons and 'If We Must Die' is on there which would be something to be enthusiastic about and I reckon I could knock together a meaningful lesson around it (the lesson doesn't have to be perfect I suppose, seems to be for a discussion point more than anything else).

 

[spanglechick]

I think they’re looking for evidence that you’ve thought about the stages of the lesson and building up through the different ways kids learn. Not that you need to know the theory of that, but just an awareness that they need more support at first to be doing the thing independently by the end of the lesson.

 

[nagapie]

Why would you produce a lesson/lesson plan for a TA job?

 

[nagapie]

Also they all pay TAs super shit.

 

[maomao]

Why would you produce a lesson/lesson plan for a TA job?

The lesson's for the UEL job.

 

[maomao]

Also they all pay TAs super shit.

Yes but 14k is low even for a TA (In London) from the job adverts I've been seeing.

 

[nagapie]

The lesson's for the UEL job.

Uel?

 

[maomao]

Uel?

Sorry, interview not job. University of East London.

Had a minor panic but I'll be alright.

I have a Zoom meeting with the Get Into Teaching adviser tomorrow. Should feel a bit more confident after that.

Have agreed to the TA interview on Thursday. Good practise if nothing else.

 

[maomao]

Mock interview with the Get into Teaching people went very well indeed. And I've abandoned over the top enthusiastic lesson plans for a simple one on prepositional phrases with a series of exercises allowing for differentiation and development.

 

[nagapie]

The golden rule for great lesson plans is pare it back.
So that sounds like a good idea.

 

[Thora]

Yes but 14k is low even for a TA (In London) from the job adverts I've been seeing.

Check you’re not comparing actual with pro rata though - sometimes you see a job advertised at a really good pay but it’s actually listing the full time equivalent rather than 25 hours term time.

 

[maomao]

Check you’re not comparing actual with pro rata though - sometimes you see a job advertised at a really good pay but it’s actually listing the full time equivalent rather than 25 hours term time.

I was halfway through the application before I noticed that. It's 'Scale LBR3 Point 5-6, pro rata of £21,591 to £21,981 fte per annum (£14,063 to £14,317)'. I was really excited about a 21k TA job at first! It only gives the original salary in the headline.

 

[maomao]

I think I've fucked up. I was cautioned for shoplifting aged thirteen or fourteen (I think 13 but god knows, it's over thirty years ago) When I did the UCAS application everything I read seemed to advise that this would be filtered and I should not declare it. So I didn't.

Now I have read advice to the effect that I really should have disclosed this as it is an enhanced check. I've read and reread the giv dbs site and I just find it confusing. I've submitted all my forms. Should I ask the admissions officer for advice tomorrow? I'm having a massive panic about it.

 

[scifisam]

I think I've fucked up. I was cautioned for shoplifting aged thirteen or fourteen (I think 13 but god knows, it's over thirty years ago) When I did the UCAS application everything I read seemed to advise that this would be filtered and I should not declare it. So I didn't.

Now I have read advice to the effect that I really should have disclosed this as it is an enhanced check. I've read and reread the giv dbs site and I just find it confusing. I've submitted all my forms. Should I ask the admissions officer for advice tomorrow? I'm having a massive panic about it.

I was also cautioned for shoplifting at age 12 and I'm fairly sure I didn't declare it on my DBS check when I did my PGCE (or the CRB check I did before that). Or if I did it didn't cause any problems.

Here's a good link:

This bit is talking specifically about enhanced DBS checks:

When does a caution appear on a DBS certificate?
Some types of caution are included on the list of offences that will never be filtered – these will always appear on your DBS certificate.

All other cautions will appear on your DBS unless they meet the following conditions, in which case they will be filtered and will not appear on your DBS certificate:

• Cautions received when you were aged under 18, and two years have passed since the date of the caution.
• Cautions received when you were aged 18 or older, and six years have passed since the date of the caution.

I haven't checked the lost of cautions that will never be filtered, but I think it's safe to assume shoplifting isn't one of them. There's a link there for you to check anyway.

With enhanced DBS checks, the police can include anything they consider relevant, like, say, multiple accusations of domestic violence. They hardly ever do this - apparently 0.1% of enhanced DBS checks include extra info - and it's so unlikely that they'd include a juvenile caution for shoplifting that I think it's basically never going to happen.

DBS checks are also advisory to a certain extent - for example, drugs workers need enhanced DBS checks, and a lot of drugs workers have past convictions for drug use. They are still allowed to be employed, it's just that they might well be asked about it. In the vanishingly unlikely event that your caution did show up, you'd still be allowed to be employed and it'd be a really, really picky school that gave a shit about an offence huge numbers of other teachers also committed as teenagers, even if they weren't caught.

Don't worry, honestly.

 

[maomao]

I was also cautioned for shoplifting at age 12 and I'm fairly sure I didn't declare it on my DBS check when I did my PGCE (or the CRB check I did before that). Or if I did it didn't cause any problems.

Here's a good link:

This bit is talking specifically about enhanced DBS checks:

When does a caution appear on a DBS certificate?
Some types of caution are included on the list of offences that will never be filtered – these will always appear on your DBS certificate.

All other cautions will appear on your DBS unless they meet the following conditions, in which case they will be filtered and will not appear on your DBS certificate:

• Cautions received when you were aged under 18, and two years have passed since the date of the caution.
• Cautions received when you were aged 18 or older, and six years have passed since the date of the caution.

I haven't checked the lost of cautions that will never be filtered, but I think it's safe to assume shoplifting isn't one of them. There's a link there for you to check anyway.

With enhanced DBS checks, the police can include anything they consider relevant, like, say, multiple accusations of domestic violence. They hardly ever do this - apparently 0.1% of enhanced DBS checks include extra info - and it's so unlikely that they'd include a juvenile caution for shoplifting that I think it's basically never going to happen.

DBS checks are also advisory to a certain extent - for example, drugs workers need enhanced DBS checks, and a lot of drugs workers have past convictions for drug use. They are still allowed to be employed, it's just that they might well be asked about it. In the vanishingly unlikely event that your caution did show up, you'd still be allowed to be employed and it'd be a really, really picky school that gave a shit about an offence huge numbers of other teachers also committed as teenagers, even if they weren't caught.

Don't worry, honestly.

Thank you. I'm catastrophising because I've had a very stressful month. I'll take a nytol and go to bloody bed. And kudos on being one year younger than me when you got nicked. Thanks.

 

[maomao]

Interview with UEL over now. I think the interview section went very well. Even though my interviewer clearly had soup in his beard, it was easier to pretend not to be looking at it in a Zoom situation. He was very forgiving of my lesson plan, it was a talking point rather than anything else. He seemed to agree with most of my answers to his questions and did a lot of nodding and saying 'yes, that's right'. The written assignment was hell though. I'd been practising grammar and punctuation because I had been told that's what the assessment would probably be. Instead I had to write 600+ words on a Victorian poem (afterwards by Thomas Hardy) which is probably my weakest point in the whole subject area. I didn't do terribly (and I didn't cheat) but it just puts a little dent in what was otherwise quite a confident and positive interview. I will find out early next week. He said if I hadn't heard by Wednesday to phone admissions.

I need a drink. I don't even drink but I need a drink.

 

[Steel Icarus]

You've done well - and you've done all you can. Try not to think too much about it. Well done mate.

 

[Nikkormat]

Good luck maomao. I did the PGDE (to teach FE) ten years ago, and have ended up in a job I really love. I highly recommend this book: Rosenshine's Principles in Action by Tom Sherrington. Cuts out a lot of the crap, and gives you what you need in the classroom.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I think I've fucked up. I was cautioned for shoplifting aged thirteen or fourteen (I think 13 but god knows, it's over thirty years ago) When I did the UCAS application everything I read seemed to advise that this would be filtered and I should not declare it. So I didn't.

Now I have read advice to the effect that I really should have disclosed this as it is an enhanced check. I've read and reread the giv dbs site and I just find it confusing. I've submitted all my forms. Should I ask the admissions officer for advice tomorrow? I'm having a massive panic about it.

I'm pretty sure it would be filtered. Annoyingly, some offences are filtered 11 years after conviction. My last conviction was 10 and a half years ago

I don't think I declared that offence on my UCAS application but once I'd been given an offer I got sent a load of background check forms from the university and after much poring over the confusing rules about these things I decided to declare it even though it has never shown up on an enhanced DBS. It doesn't seem to have bothered the university, they're just happy I've already got a valid DBS certificate.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Good luck maomao. I did the PGDE (to teach FE) ten years ago, and have ended up in a job I really love. I highly recommend this book: Rosenshine's Principles in Action by Tom Sherrington. Cuts out a lot of the crap, and gives you what you need in the classroom.

I just read another book by Tom Sherrington (The Learning Rainforest) and it was very good. Lots of reference to proper research in there so it's not all just 'this is how I think you should do teaching'. He does however manage to refer to Katharine Birbalsingh and her self-described 'Tiger Teachers' without spitting on the floor so that's one point where we disagree.

 

[equationgirl]

Glad it went ok maomao. Typical academic, with soup in his beard. I once had a lecturer who regularly turned up with egg in his beard and on his tie. Most off-putting.

 

[Sweet FA]

Nice one maomao, interviews are stressful at the best of times. Sounds like you did a good job.

You might not have to but I'd say (unless you really don't want the job) go for all the interviews you're offered.

 

[maomao]

Nice one maomao, interviews are stressful at the best of times. Sounds like you did a good job.

You might not have to but I'd say (unless you really don't want the job) go for all the interviews you're offered.

I didn't do the TA interview on Thursday but I told them politely Wednesday morning. I was just too stressed and flapping over today. It's been a really hard month. Till four weeks ago I had been being told work would be normal again and was enjoying time off with my family despite the slightly unusual circumstances. I can't do everything at once no matter how much I'd like to and I ended up getting myself very worked up this week.

I've stopped worrying about the legal thing. I knew I wouldn't be kicked off the course for the caution itself but was worried I might for hiding it. In the end I paid five quid to a cheap Internet lawyer to tell me in writing I didn't need to declare it so in the highly unlikely event I was challenged over it (though he was very sure it would not show up) I could say I got legal advice that I didn't have to. It sounds pointless but it's shut down that source of anxiety.

I'm a little worried that I went too far in my criticism of Hardy but I genuinely didn't like the poem. And we discussed poetry as one of my possible weak points. I think I've probably got away with it.

Anyway, I'm effectively on holiday till I've heard one way or another so fuck it. I'm using part of my redundancy money to get a bike if I get in so I'll just get on with shopping for that.

Thanks again to all for all advice and support.

 

[Sweet FA]

Mate you absolutely have to look after yourself, (I should have added 'and/or it's too much' in the parentheses). Fwiw I would have done the same thing re the caution.

The rest of it sounds like you've got a handle on and is now done and dusted.

Enjoy the bike; as I've recently discovered, they're excellent.

 

[Cid]

Thank you. I'm catastrophising because I've had a very stressful month.

Yes. Even if you don't get it this year, there will be more chances. And rest assured that there are many on here who greatly enjoy your presence on these boards, so it's not because you're that weird. But fingers crossed none the less. 加油加油！

 

[equationgirl]

At least you'll find out fairly quickly maomao so enjoy your break until then.

 

[maomao]

No news yet, just need a moan. Had been very good for a day or so putting it to the back of my mind. About 3am Sunday morning I woke up for the loo and had an email telling me to log in to the UEL portal to arrange an interview. Logged in and there was no such option, obviously didn't get back to sleep after that. Have just had a chat (that took over an hour) with Uel online support who say it was probably an automated email and doesn't mean anything. Also told me admissions can take up to 10 days to process and respond. I'm really not very good at waiting.

Will still phone on Wednesday if no answer because that's what I was told.

 

[maomao]

Well admissions have no update for me and have asked me to be patient which is what I expected really. Academics don't tend to know exactly how admissions departments work IME. He did kind of get my hopes up for an early answer though.

I am telling myself that this is because a 'yes' is more work (enrollment, placement etc.) than a 'no' (quick fuck off) but I have no idea if this is true in reality. And I've been distracting myself with housework and gardening so at least the house will get even cleaner.

 

[baldrick]

Good luck. My husband has an interview & presentation tomorrow morning. Hopefully you will get good news next week.

 

[maomao]

Good luck to Mr baldrick

I have an offer from UEL. However I am once again a bit confused.

UCAS says conditional offer. It says conditional on me providing my GCSE and degree certificates. Degree certificate is not a problem. GCSE situation was discussed in detail before submitting my application. It states clearly on my application that I don't have these certificates and the exam boards for all have been given as 'unknown'. All the exam boards have stopped any requests for certificates before 2000. They can't possibly stop me attending because of this at this point right?

I suppose I should phone admissions but I have a cottage pie to make for dinner and I'd rather phone them tomorrow. I should accept the offer though right? It says the way to do this is by withdrawing other applications. I've withdrawn the other UEL related one and can't withdraw the other one as already unsuccesful.

I think it means I'm in though.