Too late for a PGCE application?

[baldrick]

Applications for Sept are definitely still open if that's a concern. Some places may be full but that's not the same as having missed the deadline. My husband is also looking at starting a PGCE this year. How exactly it will work come September I don't really know but you could def get a place still. Depending on demand the lack of classroom experience is not a barrier necessarily, obviously it's preferable but now there's a recognition that's not really been possible for a number of months anyway, so you shouldn't hold back for a year just because of that.

 

[Sue]

Yeah well I'm on team Scotland lol.

My cousin's from Edinburgh and would like to move back there. His wife's from Sydney and won't because of the weather. They're currently in London (which tbf is where they met) but they now have two small kids and a very small flat and are struggling to afford anything bigger. If they're going to move, they're keen to do so before their elder kid starts school so they've got about 18 months to sort it out...

 

[nagapie]

Yeah well I'm on team Scotland lol.

Yes, I'm sure the Scots will be out with their pitchforks

 

[hegley]

Need a pgde. Or pgce and three years teaching experience. I'd move to Edinburgh tomorrow but wife not so keen. Doesn't like the even darker winters.

I spent the first 30 years of my life living in the SE of England and then the 20 years after that moving progressively further north finally settling in Scotland and working in Edinburgh. The winters are a horrible struggle for me tbh. Every move north has been in early springtime, which I think helps - if you end up thinking of starting a course in 2021, I'd definitely recommend moving at the end of the winter if you can. I use a SAD lamp from Sept/Oct onwards - psychologically helps a bit. As does planning winter - the run up to Xmas is usually bearable, and then I kid myself we've got past the shortest day; a short break for some winter sun is great if finances/logistics allow in Jan/Feb, then it's just a case of gritting your teeth for a few more weeks until the clocks change in March ...

 

[maomao]

Any moves of country are at least a couple of years in the future and they're both places where we've spent a lot of time.

I've signed up to speak to an advisor on Monday, my mum's looking for the GCSEs and it's Yorkshire pudding night tonight.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Unis need all the students that they can get right now so apply

 

[gaijingirl]

So my main language when I did my PGCE was Japanese but it wasn't possible to do a PGCE in that - I had to do it in French & Spanish (it's hard to do it with one language - most training providers require two) and offer Japanese as an "extra". In the end I did teach Japanese as my first language for 8 years but when that job came to an end I was unable to find another teaching Japanese and so now I teach French and Spanish. I did my PGCE at Goldsmiths. Having Mandarin is usually a good thing to have as an "extra" although you will find some schools advertising for a Mandarin teacher (more than Japanese these days for sure). However, there are also private companies offering Mandarin teachers privately to schools - at my current school we teach Mandarin widely - we have two Mandarin teachers and a Mandarin TA but they are bought in from an outside agency. They don't have PGCEs.

I don't know if you're too late and I don't know anything about the bursary - 26K really?? However, you're not too old as long as you're happy to go in at the bottom of the payscale (or near the bottom if you're lucky).

My only warning would be to say - be very, very careful about what school you take a job in. You talk about hateful, dysfunctional workplaces but there are many schools (mainly MATS) where this is fine-tuned and perfected.

I think you might struggle to get experience right now to be honest though. You might get away with it given the current circumstances - you don't really have anything to lose by trying right?

If you can get past all of that, it's an amazing profession despite the ridiculous hours and pressures, but you do really have to want to do it. It's a vocation rather than a job, in my opinion.

Good luck!

 

[maomao]

You talk about hateful, dysfunctional workplaces but there are many schools (mainly MATS) where this is fine-tuned and perfected.

Thanks

Do you ever get called a cunt in front of an office full of people and end up putting up with it because the only alternative is walking out penniless? I would have walked long ago if it wasn't for the kids. If it can be 5% more civilised than that I can manage.

The plan last time was to do EAL and Mandarin. EAL is quite in demand I believe. My degree is linguistics and Chinese so it makes sense.

And I have always wanted to be a teacher. Both my parents were. I've taught English abroad before and liked it though I think I would have been better at it if I'd been trained first. And even if it doesn't work out long term it gives me a lot more options.

 

[nagapie]

Do you ever get called a cunt in front of an office full of people and end up putting up with it because the only alternative is walking out penniless? I would have walked long ago if it wasn't for the kids. If it can be 5% more civilised than that I can manage.

The plan last time was to do EAL and Mandarin. EAL is quite in demand I believe. My degree is linguistics and Chinese so it makes sense.

And I have always wanted to be a teacher. Both my parents were. I've taught English abroad before and liked it though I think I would have been better at it if I'd been trained first. And even if it doesn't work out long term it gives me a lot more options.

I can't imagine there are that many jobs in schools for EAL. Firstly it's an area that is always in the front line for cuts. Secondly it's always a small department. But I think you should just go for the subjects you most want to do, there is always a job out there with teaching. And you can do supply for a while. For example even when teachers were in such short supply in London, the SW had too many as many people want to live there. But you can find temp jobs and work them into perms eventually.

 

[scifisam]

Thanks

Do you ever get called a cunt in front of an office full of people and end up putting up with it because the only alternative is walking out penniless? I would have walked long ago if it wasn't for the kids. If it can be 5% more civilised than that I can manage.

The plan last time was to do EAL and Mandarin. EAL is quite in demand I believe. My degree is linguistics and Chinese so it makes sense.

And I have always wanted to be a teacher. Both my parents were. I've taught English abroad before and liked it though I think I would have been better at it if I'd been trained first. And even if it doesn't work out long term it gives me a lot more options.

Being called a cunt is a very common experience in teaching, yes. I'm not sure I'd ever call it civilised, TBH.

EAL isn't particularly in demand TBH - it's one of the hardest subjects in which to get a permanent job in a state school. Could you possibly do an English PGCE instead? Usually that wouldn't be possible if it's not your main subject, but I think it might be a bit different now.

Is it secondary you're aiming for or primary? Primary doesn't have as much of a focus on a specialist subject. It's a shame it's going to be so difficult to get experience at difference key stages at the moment, because that would make a big difference. However, there might be TA jobs going come September if you decide to wait a year.

 

[SpookyFrank]

What if you can't remember which exam board they were taken under and the school you took some of them at is long closed. You presumably have to write to them all. pfft.

This is exactly where I was at with my A levels. All I could remember was that there were at least two different exam boards involved. The college in question has since been absorbed into a different college fifty miles away, somehow, so phoning them up didn't seem likely to be much help.

But fwiw maomao the course I'm signed up for recently told me that the Department for Education deadline for providing proof of qualifications had been pushed back to November 30th. This change only happened about a week ago; presumably some bright spark realised they need teachers slightly more than they need worm-eaten bits of paper from 25 years ago.

 

[maomao]

Is it secondary you're aiming for or primary? Primary doesn't have as much of a focus on a specialist subject. It's a shame it's going to be so difficult to get experience at difference key stages at the moment, because that would make a big difference. However, there might be TA jobs going come September if you decide to wait a year.

I like primary tbh. Maybe I'll feel differently when my kids are bigger though. Feels like a hard call cause you're stuck one side of the divide either way.

Thanks all for all the ideas, experience and encouragement. Need to talk this through with my wife as well as the adviser on Monday.

 

[maomao]

Could you possibly do an English PGCE instead?

Thanks for saying that. I think I can with a linguistics degree and a-level English. There's a ten grand bursary which is not to be sniffed at and I can probably find somewhere nearer to study.

 

[nagapie]

Thanks for saying that. I think I can with a linguistics degree and a-level English. There's a ten grand bursary which is not to be sniffed at and I can probably find somewhere nearer to study.

Just be warned, heaviest workload of any subject - and that's saying something.

 

[maomao]

Well I've just been made redundant (8.30 on a Monday morning, I was hoping it was that teacher recruitment people when the phone rang) so that's rather forced my hand. I will be kept on furlough till that runs out first though. So will push ahead with applications and if it doesn't work will look for TA job and try and get in that way.

 

[maomao]

Have been told school experience requirements are now dropped in response to C19 and I have up to September to apply. In a bit of a state right now. There are many more courses on offer for English than Modern languages with Mandarin. Going to work my way through the courses tomorrow morning before the kids get up.

Looks like I can get extra money for kids and childcare too which will be really important if my wife manages to get a job.

 

[equationgirl]

Fuck maomao, so sorry to hear you've been made redundant. Even if you hate the job it's still shitty when it happens. Take today to feel the feelings and look to the future tomorrow. Thinking of you.

 

[equationgirl]

Also, would you be happy doing English or would you prefer to do languages?

 

[maomao]

Also, would you be happy doing English or would you prefer to do languages?

English at secondary is what I've decided on. Hard work I know but thast means there's always demand. I really only have one foreign language anyway. Linguistics really should count as relevant to English and I have a B in A-Level English too. I believe I qualify and would be happy to do SKE if needed.

Ex-boss is happy to provide reference and my old Uni teacher is still alive, working (I think she's 71 this year) and happy to help so that's the two needed. Just need to get over my fear of forms now.

 

[equationgirl]

English at secondary is what I've decided on. Hard work I know but thast means there's always demand. I really only have one foreign language anyway. Linguistics really should count as relevant to English and I have a B in A-Level English too. I believe I qualify and would be happy to do SKE if needed.

Ex-boss is happy to provide reference and my old Uni teacher is still alive, working (I think she's 71 this year) and happy to help so that's the two needed. Just need to get over my fear of forms now.

With the forms, can you do them in chunks rather than all at once? Maybe doing them in pieces might be less scary?

 

[equationgirl]

Did you decide to train in England in the end?

 

[maomao]

Did you decide to train in England in the end?

Yes, definitely. Future options are for the future. Mrs maomao doesn't like the weather in Scotland (and I don't like it in her part of China) so that discussion will rumble on for a few years yet.

 

[planetgeli]

Sorry to hear about the redundancy maomao. Blessing in disguise? Opportunity out of crisis?

 

[spanglechick]

I have had a couple of periods of being an English teacher. It has pros and cons.
Pro:
no one- be they kid or parent or on the teaching / school leadership side is ever going to be able to claim your subject isn’t important. You’ll never be in a staff meeting and discover that there won’t be a gcse in your subject next year.
there are loads of jobs, because it’s a compulsory gcse, and popular for a-level.
you get to teach Shakespeare and fantastic poems etc
You’ll only have on class per year group, and you’ll see them a lot. Fewer names to remember, relationships to establish, books to haul around

Con:
There is no “flick and tick” marking. You will quickly grow to hate maths teachers for this. marking takes longer than any other subject. Yes in languages you also have to correct spellings and grammar, but they don’t write anywhere near as much.

Because the subject is so important, your results (and therefore you) will be under a fucktonne of scrutiny. English and maths results carry more weighting in the league tables. Prepare to be pressurised.

You will end up teaching some totally inappropriate stuff. Last time I covered English they were trying to do all eight million dry verses of The Highwayman with bottom set year seven as part of a poorly put-together scheme on 19th century gothic literature. You can be MichellePfieffer in Dangerous Minds all you like, but you won’t be given freedom to ignore the curriculum that some ivory tower twat has imposed on you.

Languages, I’m in less position to judge. I know recruitment to exam classes/enthusiasm for learning can be hard. But if it’s what you love most, then you should definitely do it.

I’d say, you could probably get an EAL job if your PGCE is in MFL, but I’m not sure about the other way around. Also, brexit is going to mean a big reduction in need for EAL staff. Most of our EAL kids are Portuguese, or occasionally French, Dutch etc. Kids from Commonwealth countries tend to already speak English.

 

[maomao]

I have had a couple of periods of being an English teacher. It has pros and cons.
Pro:
no one- be they kid or parent or on the teaching / school leadership side is ever going to be able to claim your subject isn’t important. You’ll never be in a staff meeting and discover that there won’t be a gcse in your subject next year.
there are loads of jobs, because it’s a compulsory gcse, and popular for a-level.
you get to teach Shakespeare and fantastic poems etc
You’ll only have on class per year group, and you’ll see them a lot. Fewer names to remember, relationships to establish, books to haul around

Con:
There is no “flick and tick” marking. You will quickly grow to hate maths teachers for this. marking takes longer than any other subject. Yes in languages you also have to correct spellings and grammar, but they don’t write anywhere near as much.

Because the subject is so important, your results (and therefore you) will be under a fucktonne of scrutiny. English and maths results carry more weighting in the league tables. Prepare to be pressurised.

You will end up teaching some totally inappropriate stuff. Last time I covered English they were trying to do all eight million dry verses of The Highwayman with bottom set year seven as part of a poorly put-together scheme on 19th century gothic literature. You can be MichellePfieffer in Dangerous Minds all you like, but you won’t be given freedom to ignore the curriculum that some ivory tower twat has imposed on you.

Languages, I’m in less position to judge. I know recruitment to exam classes/enthusiasm for learning can be hard. But if it’s what you love most, then you should definitely do it.

I’d say, you could probably get an EAL job if your PGCE is in MFL, but I’m not sure about the other way around. Also, brexit is going to mean a big reduction in need for EAL staff. Most of our EAL kids are Portuguese, or occasionally French, Dutch etc. Kids from Commonwealth countries tend to already speak English.

Thank you. That's just basically confirmed the little pros and cons list I had made for myself as well as adding a couple of things (marking and Brexit I'd already thought of). I'm definitely keener on English than ML. The bursary is less than half the ML one for a start so it must be some sort of enthusiasm. I'd rather be reading and teaching English books than endlessly trying to keep my Mandarin up to scratch to teach a very basic level of it year after year. And job security/availability is really the number one consideration.

 

[Cid]

Yes, definitely. Future options are for the future. Mrs maomao doesn't like the weather in Scotland (and I don't like it in her part of China) so that discussion will rumble on for a few years yet.

PGCE would also serve you extremely well if you did go to China anyway, by far the best opportunities for those who have full teaching qualifications from UK/US. Head of department at international schools and the like. Though obviously that is dependent on area, and whether you want to teach the wealthiest kids.

 

[Sweet FA]

Are you set on secondary?

Primary's much better

 

[maomao]

Are you set on secondary?

Primary's much better.

No bursaries (apart from maths). I have an also recently redundant partner and two kids. The bursary (plus the redundancy money) is the only thing that makes it possible.

 

[Sweet FA]

No bursaries (apart from maths). I have an also recently redundant partner and two kids. The bursary (plus the redundancy money) is the only thing that makes it possible.

Ah OK; sorry missed some info.

 

[maomao]

Ah OK; sorry missed some info.

tbf I only realised yesterday and hadn't mentioned on thread. It's not obvious on the list of available bursaries if you don't realise that 'primary' is a subject in itself so 'maths' means secondary maths and the only primary subject listed is 'primary with maths'.